Final part of T session. Mentioned the phone call from MC last Wed., where he'd called me at 9:45 p.m. in response to an e-mail I'd sent about being unhappy with how he'd handled some stuff in session, where it felt like he was still acting like I was the one who had to make all the changes in the marriage. I hadn't requested a call, so it surprised me. MC had said some stuff about how he didn't blame me, how he didn't want me to be dependent on H. T said it sounded like he didn't fully understand what was bothering me. I said yes. But then he seemed to get it more, saying he could make some suggestions to H. And he ended up doing that in our next session, and it was helpful, so I think he ultimately did understand.

Told T how MC ended the call with, "Are we OK?" How it felt a bit odd, almost like he wanted reassurance about our relationship, too. T said how therapists get more familiar with clients the longer they know them, so this could have been a familiarity thing. Like if I'd just started working with him, MC might have said, "Are you still upset?" but since he's known me a long time, he said, "Are we OK?" instead. Not sure if T totally got what I was driving at there (countertransference from MC), but I said that explanation could make sense. He also said with the lateness of the call, that he gets the sense that MC generally isn't too aware of the time (they used to work together), so maybe he didn't realize how late it was. I said that made sense.

I think he's trying really hard not to be judgmental of MC--which in some ways I appreciate, because ex-T being judgmental of him was hard for me (and I told current T this when I first started seeing him). At the same time, a bit more validation for my interpretation would be good.

I said how at one point, I'd wondered if I could have met with MC and ex-T, to have ex-T be a bit of a mediator. T seemed to think that was interesting, but said could have been awkward with them working in same office. I said it occurred to me that I could have met with MC in T's office, and he asked more about that. I said it was almost like I wanted to confront him about things. To talk about the role he'd played in the transference, like it wasn't just me. But I worried about what MC's reaction would be, if he'd just be defensive. T said, like the thing with my mom, I couldn't go into it hoping for a particular reaction. I said it was more to assert myself, that I wasn't just this needy person, that he'd contributed to it. T seemed to think it was an interesting idea to consider.

I said the concern again about MC acting defensive. And I said, "No offense, but you guys seem like you tend to get defensive about those sorts of things. Not that you really have yet, but ex-T and MC." T said how if someone has been practicing a while, it can be easy to fall into a place of almost narcissism, like a God complex. And that if he's ever defensive like that to me, he wants me to call him out on it. I said I would. (I appreciated him saying that.)

I said one of the things that I wanted to bring up to MC is how his talking about his kids so much contributed to the transference/attachment. And with T, even though there was other stuff I wanted to know about his son, I wasn't asking it.
Me: For example--and I'm not looking for an answer to this--but I'm curious as to whether your son is higher- or lower-functioning in the autism spectrum. But I'm not asking, because I know that could affect how I talk about D. Like, if I knew your son was low-functioning, maybe I'd feel weird lamenting D struggling with certain things, when I know you're dealing with worse stuff with your son."

T: That's exactly why you shouldn't know the details about my son at all, that I wish you didn't know what you did (ex-T told me his son was on spectrum), because I think that's affecting what you talk to me about.

Me: I'm not sure it's really affected it. Well... I guess when I talked about the biomedical stuff, I was concerned about what your opinion was on it because of your son. So, I guess, maybe it has affected it a little.

T: Yes, exactly, I think it has. I choose to have a picture of my son on my desk, and if people asked, I'd say, "That's my son. He's 10." But not share more than that about him.

Me: You're choosing to put the picture there, so you'd have to expect that question. But...I guess with MC Monday, when I mentioned the stuff about the memorial, I could tell he looked sad, and then I wondered if I should stop talking about it. But then, I knew I shouldn't, because, I mean, death is a common topic in therapy. And if I was avoiding that because of his wife... I'm sure his clients who don't know about her talk about death all the time.

T: Yes, death and grieving are very frequent topics in therapy. And that's a perfect example of how knowing things about the therapist can negatively affect the therapy.

Talked a bit about boundaries, how they exist in all relationships, not just therapy. Like you're probably not going to talk about personal stuff with your electrician or boss.
T: Yes, like you probably wouldn't want to tell your boss about sexual difficulties or your desire to steal the office microwave.

Me (joking): I hear microwaves can fetch quite a bit on the black market!

T: No they don't, I have no idea why I used that as an example!

Me: I guess the therapy relationship is especially weird because the client can share anything with the therapist, and the therapist is supposed to accept any of that, but not share their own stuff. Maybe I should have said "unique," not "weird."

T: You can call it "weird." It kind of is. I mean, you help me pay my rent, and I help you therapeutically.
Me: True!

Scheduled for next week, went to pay, mentioned how I was headed right out to a concert. Said name of band, he said he didn't know them, isn't that familiar with music. I asked if he just liked classical, as that's what he plays in the waiting room. He said not really, that he's just one of those people who's not into music, it just doesn't do much for him. How he knows that's not the case for many people, how some, like me, go out of my way for it. He said, "Be careful out there" and shook my hand. I said, "I'll see you next week," and he replied, "Of course."