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Old Apr 16, 2018, 12:01 PM
Olive303 Olive303 is offline
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Member Since: May 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
I think you see yourself torn between two unsatisfactory options. Either give up your hope of having children (or at least one child) or give up the man you have come to love very much. That kind of a choice would make anyone feel miserable, or even close to despair. I'm trying to point out a very possible third option.

Option #3: Keep the man and have a couple of kids.

Option #3 seems unattainable because you're in the habit of assuming that people know what they want, mean what they say and can't possibly be talked into a different way of looking at things. Your mom and sis have you well-trained. You are trained to think: "I must conform to what is wanted of me by someone else." and - because you respect the rights of others - "I must not jeopardize another person living out their dream."

If Mary Todd Lincoln thought like you, Abraham Lincoln would never have become president. She had to push him into it. (Abe was prone to depression and wasn't interested in being too ambitious.) This boyfriend of yours is a confused young man scared of life. He is exactly the sort of man who tends to be a poor judge of what possibilities life can hold. This has a lot to do with why he is chronically depressed - "severely." He contemplates all the chances of all that can go wrong in life. He's able to work on a doctoral degree because there's really nothing much wrong with his brain. But there's something wrong with his thinking. He needs a strong, clear-sighted woman who is unwilling to follow him down the road to an emotionally impoverished life. You need to stop following and start leading! I think you are a person with a healthier mind (than he has) who could steer this relationship in the direction of a richly satisfying life, if you would stop being the submissive one and take hold of the reins.

I'm not saying you should just defy him, but don't be ready to accept his terms so easily. Ask yourself if he is someone who would be irresponsible in the care of a child. Is he irresponsible in general? Does he pay his bills on time? Does he maintain his vehicle properly? My guess is that he would probably do just fine with fatherhood. Does he have a reasonable capacity for compassion? If he's a cold-hearted, irresponsible guy, then you don't want him for a husband. But, if he makes you feel well-loved, then he would probably do just fine with a child. I'm not saying "Force him." But lots of people have wound up being very successful at something they had to be kind of persuaded into doing. If your guy managed to be nice to your meddling mom and sis who don't like him, but he cooks them breakfast and chauffers them around, then I don't see him becoming miserable toward a child of his own. Yes, there are people who should never have kids. That would be people who are grossly immature, violent, substance abusing, irresponsible, cruel, can't hold down a job, are in terrible health and so on. It doesn't sound like he is anything like that. Maybe he isn't Mr. Rogers. Most dads aren't. I heard a saying once, "The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother."

In the meantime, figure out how you will support yourself, if you do end up having to part with him. He wants you to resolve all the uncertainty - now - by saying you accept childlessness and won't ever hold it against him. Baloney! You are not at all ready to commit to that, so don't! He's just going to have to live with some uncertainty for a while. That's not what he wants, but too bad.

And stop saying he made this intent to remain childless clear right from the beginning. He did no such thing. He hemmed and he hawed. Well, now it's appropriate for you to hem and haw. You are way too quick to want to give others what they want. You were brought up to do that. You are so afraid of being "unfair" to him. So he won't have perfect peace of mind, not knowing what you'll ultimately do. That's okay. Your mind is very disturbed and without peace. He can handle a little suspence. Very often, people prone to depression are people who can't tolerate all their ducks not being in a nice, neat little row. Well, life is messy. Adapting to not being able to control everything is part of what it takes to mature out of chronic depression.

Thanks for the post. Interesting perspective and it does give me hope it could work out one day. However, isn’t it best to stay with someone without trying to change them? You’re right I’ve always been conditioned to accept what people tell me and not attempt to change their minds but isn’t it best to not hope he will change his mind one day if I just do or say the right things? That sounds like it could lead to resentment if he does not change his mind. He literally said “don’t expect me to change my mind, I am very clear on this”.

This part you said:

Option #3 seems unattainable because you're in the habit of assuming that people know what they want, mean what they say and can't possibly be talked into a different way of looking at things. Your mom and sis have you well-trained. You are trained to think: "I must conform to what is wanted of me by someone else." and - because you respect the rights of others - "I must not jeopardize another person living out their dream."

Is sooo true. I never try to change people’s mind and always respect the dreams of others. I sometimes forget that it is possible to talk someone into doing something or changing their mind but it never feels good because it always seems like if they had to be manipulated into it they never really wanted it to begin with.

You are also right about him being “scared of life” in a way. Before I met him he never even had a girlfriend and assumed he would never get married. Now he’s the one who wants to get married. His parents and everyone around him have an unhappy marriage so he has assumed it won’t ever work. Being with me changed that. Every time we bring up kids he thinks of worse case scenarios- “what if I lose you, what if the child has a major disability or illness, what if they get cancer, how can we afford it, who will take care of them while we work, they will disrupt my peace and quiet, what if I pass my bad genes on them” (he has health issues outside of depression that are actually correlated to the depression. Meaning he started getting depressed when he got cancer and other big health complications). In addition to all the things that could go wrong he is just too exhausted around kids. He doesn’t want the lifestyle and doesn’t want to care for them 24/7.

Yes, I do think he would make a good father if he wanted kids. He makes me feel loved, is very responsible, more caring than even I am, ambitious, and the funny part is that kids actually love him! But at the end of the day does any of that matter if he doesn’t want them?

Uncertainty is an uncomfortable place to live in and if neither of us will change our minds is there a point to drag things out? Your last paragraph really hit home for me. He likes everything to be definite and clear and the uncertainty is hard for both of us. But he does have a point. Will time really make this any more clear to me? I know I want kids, he knows he doesnt. Seems pretty clear?

What do you think will make him change his mind to wanting kids? I could try to ease his fear around it but if he doesn’t like the lifestyle that’s something else. He said once he agreed to have them for me he kept thinking deeply about it and realized how unhappy it would make him and unfair it would be to the child who now has a dad that never wanted them. This is what ultimately made him land on not wanting kids. Especially after he started working with kids through both babysitting and as patients and it made him want them less. I do think once they are there he will love them but it’s a gamble to take.

Last edited by Olive303; Apr 16, 2018 at 12:50 PM.
Thanks for this!
Bill3