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Originally Posted by Day Tripper
Artchic wrote:
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The most popular academic in North America is a psychology professor named Jordan Peterson. He is white collar, academic version of Trump. He believes birth control has ruined western civilization because it allowed women freedom to have sex more freely and not be forced into becoming a mother. That Marriage and the basis of a family is the back bone of society. He also believes that women shouldn't wear lipstick in the work place on video. Because the redness reflects the rush of blood going to the lips when having sex.
Jordan Peterson got popular when in a youtube video he told his students that he would not call a person by their chosen pronoun, he would either label them male or female based on their sex at birth. He believes that these gender norms of male masculinity and old fashion feminine were built to protect society and families. Young men then went in droves to his youtube videos and follow this man closely. He gets $50k a month just by Patreon, where followers donate money to see his exclusive material.
All of this is Jordan Peterson rationalizing his extreme misogyny. He is an example of toxic masculinity and droves of young men are going to hi,m because he's the only one seeing that there is an identity problem with young, white men, and no one else is stepping in. It crushes my heart because he is such a terrible role model.
Entity makes a lot of sense, but i think we should take a step back and ask how the metaquestion of how we got here. Because of globalization the unskilled factory jobs aren't here anymore. Because the minimum wage is rarely raised setting it at not even $8 they aren't finding good jobs. Previous decades had pay checks that were worth more, and the middle class was thriving becauser of these factory jobs. The middle class has been thinning for decades and even government workers with a college degree are being forced out of it now because of the trickle down economic theory that promised "If you lighten the tax burden of the rich, then they will give it to their workers." This has proven not to work, and the rich just keep the money. At no point in history have the top 1 percent held this much, and the youth are displaced now, they can't buy homes and they feel they are missing out and white males males feel like they cant provide like they once were. So young, white males are making less and are growing up in a more and more multi cultural society, and the rich, who have bought the government, point to the poor people on welfare, and blame the poor (who probably just make minumum wage thanks to the government setting the bar so low) for the place that young, white males are in now. And this is the back bone of the rust belt vote for Trump.
Like Entity says, "Theyve been conditioned", in a world where it was once better economically, and now you see this antimulticultural movement by Trump, his anti immigration policies, his slurring of peoples' religion. Social programs when FDR introduced them were HUGELY accepted, but now young white males see people of color on them and scream and shout about them now that we live in a more multicultural situation, even though white people use them more than any other skin tone.
Young, white males feel they built this country because of this beleif of "whiteness as a powerstruccture" due to their ancestry, which is a terrible idea. And now because they've had a taste of what globalism is forcing them into economically, they are pushing back. That's why they feel threatened in general. With the internet came the TODAL DEMOCRITATION OF KNOWLEDGE, it was the second coming of the book With this great power light has been shed on how bad our societal norms are, and this makes them feel uncomfortable too.
Often in history there is an a movement with an idea, then a countermovement, and finally a synthesis that brings it all back together. There is reason in history. The patriarchy has been around since ancient greece started Olympianism, which toppled the older, more feminine, cthonic religion they had. If you want an example of the old religion just look at Euripides' Medea as the older more cthonic religion, and how Ancient Greece saw it as dangerous and dark. But as women have been given the vote, as women been given birth control to control their reproduction, as women go to colleges in droves to shape the future, and inspire and start to push back, that patriarchy is being checked for once. THIS IS A HISTORICAL MOMENT. Men now have to take responisbility, right now men are falling left and right, but i believe men should just admit all they've done and ask for forigveness just as Al Franken did. I find it tragic that he was not forgiven after pictures of him touching a womans chest who was wearing a kevlar vest in a comedic pose, and he was labeled under the category of Weinstein and Cosby.
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Thing is that economical and social improvement is not the only solution because we're not just talking about America here or about people still alive. Patriarchy and male entitlement(and racist, white supremacy) are things that have existed for thousands of years and especially once certain religions, Christianity being a great example, became powerful enough to exert political and legislative power while also being the one deciding what is good and bad, who is better, who is an outcast, etc.
The disenfranchisement of the lower middle class and of skilled workers, of people in rural communities and of those without higher education is not a new thing, it existed always and only rarely were they more empowered, in certain unique circumstances or periods of particular prosperity.
Aggressive capitalism and right wing ideologies(by this I don't mean extremist right wing, just "regular" right wing ideologies that favor the upper middle class and the rich, the "intellectuals" over the skilled workers, that don't favor a social state that tries to help and even things with things like social healthcare systems the likes you find in ALL of western Europe - aka the best healthcare systems, not perfect but the best there is -, that promotes a sort of selfishness on the part of those more fortunate, etc) are generally harmful to everyone who isn't already well off or an intellectual elite. That is not a gender thing, it affects both men and women just as much only women are not socialized and conditioned to have an aggressive(mentally or physically) reaction to it the way men are. For women, who have already been suffering from oppression and who have always been treated as lesser human beings in on way or another, it's just another step down into the "mud" let's say. For men though...they fall off a pedestal.
Thing is we are not talking here about the US in particular, I'm not even American so although I know way too much about American politics, this is not a US centric debate.
And I do completely agree with what you said in this post and another reply, men just have to recognize their privilege, check their privilege and try to relinquish it. No one wants to do that but equality is actually good for both men and women.
Men could benefit tremendously from true equality because that eliminates toxic masculinity and gives more freedom to men to feel their feelings, admit their needs of being supported and comforted and it also would take some pressure away because by not being thought of as inherently superior and more able, it would be truly ok(not just legally or whatever but with no social stigma and conditioning to affect self esteem and self worth) to not be the one earning more money, being the "strong" one (which just means denying yourself the need for comfort and help).
Yes, men would have to pitch in equally with house chores and the nasty bits of having a child and would not be able to randomly objectify and sexualize women at every step or feel innately superior over this one category, but that isn't right away and that privilege and comfort comes with the oppression and dehumanization of women. Having these privileges is not a privilege at all actually.
There's a lot of freedom is being allowed to be imperfect, because no is perfect, no one is inherently stronger or weaker and feelings or the need to be helped, having bad days, being sad, feeling loss, needing love, crying...those things are good to have freely because we all have them and when men are sort of pushed into repressing them or just not dealing with them, that ends up keeping a lot of men from experiencing full intimacy, connection, happiness, intimate and fulfilling friendships, a helping hand, etc.
As someone who is clearly a 'staunch" feminist, I want full equality and that doesn't only mean not being objectified, having equal rights legally and also in the actual world where just because it's law doesn't mean it happens, not being socially pressured to wear make up and look a certain way to an extent men aren't pressured to do it, not having my worth stand first and foremost in how I look, truly having equal opportunities in life.
No, I want all those things but I also want the responsibilities. For ex, I don't want men to pay for me just because I'm the woman, I want to split the bill or, in a relationship for ex, I want to pay sometimes and then he can pay some other time too ofc like it happens with friends too. I don't want a man to be "my rock" ,I want us to be a team with equal rights and responsibilities, who support each other in equal measure to the best of our abilities. I don't want a "tough" or "stoic" man, I want sensitive men and yes that means I am ready to be there for them as well emotionally. A lot of women want that, to provide in equal measure, to be allowed to, but that does come with society as a whole rejecting gender norms and stereotyping that it has inherited in various forms from past generations.
It's like when you say religion is inherently pretty bad and violent. That's not to say everyone who believes in God is bad or violent at all or that everything about religion is that way, but as a whole it tends to be.
I don't expect men to apologize to me just as I don't think, for ex, every German needs to apologize for nazism. Men have to do what Germans did post war basically, admit that they were part of a society that gave the world nazism and ended up killing a lot of people, even if many individuals weren't guilty of anything, take a broad responsibility for it as a group and work towards eliminating the parts of their culture and mentality that made Hitler and genocide possible. Accountability is the first step.