Quote:
Originally Posted by amicus_curiae
First, I’m no intellectual giant. I watched a film earlier, The End of the Tour, about the time that a Rolling Stone journalist spent with David Foster (Dave) Wallace. Now Wallace was an intellectual giant but lived for writing and the commonplace. If my 24-years of formal education taught me anything, it is that I know so very little. Please, don’t refrain from commenting!!
Religion was bound to be broached; no harm. Existentialism and nihilism demand debate, I think, and religion becomes part of the debate. It’s only natural (giant pun).
Now nihilism and fear and apathy. I’ve not embraced nihilism out of fear (the initial fear of death/nothingness is no part of my nihilistic philosophy) or apathy (I care about, well, everything.) I’m not certain that you’re addressing me or other angels? For me, an evangelist for nihilism, I can only say that nihilism generally does provoke fear and a race towards mythologies that soothe that fear. I’ve yet to experience apathy personally or find it a reaction of those to whom I preach.
Now I think myself an expert on depression, having been brought down by the disease for over 16-years. I can’t offer any complete explanation of the disorder and doubt that anyone can. Depression does dampen any enthusiasm for living but that’s but a single symptom and I don’t believe that the enormity of the disease can be written off as a general ‘lack of enthusiasm’ and certainly not apathy though I admit that the depressed do feel apathetic about some daily activities (showering!) and other considerations of the world outside outside of themselves. With that I’ll admit that depression is a deeply rooted self-centred disease by definition.
I think that what you mean by storylines I would call mythologies and while mythologies are interesting I don’t feel that they sufficiently give overarching meaning to short-term existence.
Nihilism is far from boring! It generates an unparalleled vigor! Recognising the finite gives one a passion to live fully, an eagerness to explore and engage! Nothing boring about it!
I know silence on many, many levels. I was mute for over one-year; silencing myself. We’re Aretha-simpatico — but Natural Woman is my fave and yes, it says, she sings, yes to life.
I keep bringing up Molly Bloom’s soliloquy in the final chapter of James Joyce’s Ulysses. Let me quote the final lines:
Yes.
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To me, Amicus, it sounds like your are describing existentialism and not nihilism. You seem to indicate personal responsibility in establishing your own sense of reality and the vigorous challenge of given your life (Life) meaning. This brings to mind Viktor Frankl's work, which could be thought of as existential psychology. I think of nihilism as that which, among other things, became a movement and the cause of a suicidal epidemic in Russia in the decade before its bloody Revolution. Nihilism equaling NO. Your YES reminds me more of the YES of existentialist Paul Sartre. He was extremely engaged with life.
I don't believe I (personally, in this thread) attributed nihilism with fear. I prefer eternalism but frankly eternalism has caused me a lot of problems, and I think may just be camouflaging an adjustment disorder and maybe even an avoidant personality disorder. I may even be a nihilistic at heart! I appear to enjoy religion and other systems more for the factor of community (always chasing that dopamine rush!) than "membership" earned by sharing a common belief. For instance, when I go to a Catholic service I refrain from reciting their belief credo - which is an integral part of the service. I simply choose not to.
The storylines I refer to are not simply religious or philosophical beliefs...but much more...all the continuous experiences that make up one's life. "Stories" about love, friendship, ownership, work, sex, humor etc. etc. etc. Life. For instance, there is my story of parenting. This story creates a tapestry of beliefs simply by existing.
My adult child is a source of great pleasure. He has always been a person I find to be extremely interesting, creative, productive, and loving. It seems like a "happy coincidence" that he was born to me. This "storyline" is that I had this marvelous human being who has kept me amused, astonished, and inspired since the moment of his birth. I never had a storyline about legacy or a heavy-handedness about being a parent or anything like that. My child represents pure joy. Not that I didn't have the usual parenting challenges,but all in all, just that this person came into my life...well, it is my amazing story. The down side is he is incredibly independent and doesn't live or work even remotely geographically near me...and this contributes to my depression.
Marriage was a storyline, and so was divorce, and also dealing with depression, which now I have come to believe I have suffered from since adolescence. Creativity is an ongoing storyline...which is my own rebirth myth. Nothing to do with religion.
I also watched that film The End of The Tour. Marvelous. I have not read DFW's books (I mean to) but I did read a piece he wrote on depression for a magazine (Esquire?) and it was so spot-on and brilliant I have reread it several times. It is sad he committed suicide when his medication stopped working for him. It makes me really question (as always) the role medication therapy has in perpetuating depression over a lifetime. But that's another thread.
I am not presently medicated for depression. I originally came onto this forum because after a lifetime of being freely prescribed diazepam (Valium) I could no longer get the script, and was confused as to the reason. I suppose I WAS addicted to Valium as it damped down my anxiety - which I consider the core of my depression. I did not have withdrawal symtoms -- but my anxiety escalated and quitting smoking and drinking probably also heightened my anxiety -- all of which I got help with on this forum and for which I am grateful.
I learned about all the medications people are prescribed - from this forum...but I have taken a pretty strong stance on holistic healing modalities, although since I keep going through pretty severe depression, is a challenge.
I am sorry is I am misinterpreting how you are using the work nihilism. But maybe I am not.
I am even beginning to think I may be an existential nihilist. I am certainly a skeptic. And many people have described me as stoic. In fact, I have had a very difficult time getting any kind of help because I seem to be viewed by others as extremely self-contained. I have become socially isolated and squirrely! So what better place to seek solace than Psych Central!!!
I have not been silent by choice. It was an out-crop of the social isolation...which I have been unable to make sense of.
I will continue to follow this thread because I am interested in how people are using the terms nihilism and existentialism. But why I keep jumping in the pond and swimming with the big daddies is a mystery!!!
PS I didn't mean to cut off your James Joyce quote...it just happened.