Thread: Tough love.
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Iloivar
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Default May 25, 2019 at 09:24 AM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTrees View Post
Hi Iliovar, I don't know if you find this relevant to your post but it popped into my mind. Fixing versus empathizing. A person could certainly empathize with someone while offering ideas to help. No problem. But what happens when the focus of solutions is not offering ideas but endeavoring to "fix" or "correct" the person with the problem? Then the issue of boundaries arises. I think that may be related to your "tough love" exploration. If I have a few ideas for someone and they don't agree or don't accept my ideas, there's no need for any sort of "toughness" because I am not determined to "fix" them and so I leave them to it and go on with my life. However, if I decide that my role is to "fix" and "correct" the other person, my efforts may quickly devolve into the need to be "right" and telling the other person that they are "wrong." I believe that empathy tends to go out the window when fixing and correcting take over. And if we don't have empathy when helping others, what do we have? I've had both experiences in the mental health system....empathy with guidance and fixing with judgment/shaming. Can you guess which approach I kept going back to for more help?

Here's an example related to depression since that is something I live with myself. And two different ways of responding to a friend who is struggling and confiding to a friend who is not a mental health professional.

(Fixing and correcting approach)
Friend: My depression has been particularly unpleasant lately. I have suicidal thoughts. Nothing I would act on but the thoughts are uncomfortable.
Me: If you have suicidal thoughts you HAVE to go to the emergency room immediately. Right now!
Friend: But I don't want to go to the hospital. I'm not going to end my life. I just want to share how uncomfortable these thoughts are.
Me: I can't believe you are not on your way to the hospital!!! What are you thinking???!!! My sister's neighbor ended his life three years ago. That will happen to you if you don't go right now!!!
Friend: I'm not going to do that and I also don't want to speak with you about this anymore. I wish I hadn't brought it up.
Me: Well then you shouldn't have brought it up if you didn't want to hear my advice. I'm right. I know it. You should be at the ER right now. It surprises me that you value your life so lowly that you don't even care enough to get help.

Or

(Offering ideas while empathizing)
Friend: My depression has been particularly unpleasant lately. I have suicidal thoughts. Nothing I would act on but the thoughts are uncomfortable.
Me: It is understandable that the thoughts would be uncomfortable and unpleasant for you. I am sorry you're experiencing that. Have you talked to anyone else about these thoughts?
Friend: I feel ashamed to tell anyone else. People might think I'm crazy. I took a risk by telling you.
Me: Thank you for sharing with me. I don't think you are crazy but I also understand your desire to protect yourself. Depression seems to be very common and suicidal thoughts can go along with that at times. I wonder how you would feel about one of the depression call lines. You could keep your anonymity while also sharing your discomfort about the thoughts with someone trained to respond appropriately. You know I'm not a doctor so I'm just troubleshooting here.
Friend: I haven't tried one of those call lines. I don't think I want to do that right now but maybe at some point I'll want to. Honestly, it helps to have been able to tell you about this.
Me: No problem. I know depression is not new to you. Do you get any help from a doctor?
Friend: I'm not a big fan of doctors but I did find one who was nice last time I mentioned feeling really down.
Me: Maybe you could have another appointment with that doc? For some new ideas and support?
Friend: I might do that. I need to think about it for a while.
Me: No problem. Keep me posted if you feel like it. I care and want you to feel better. You deserve to feel better.
Friend: Thank you. I'm glad we talked.

Would the first approach be considered tough love?
I suppose so, albeit an overexaggerated version of it.

I think it's accurate that givers of tough love intend to fix and correct. But is this necessarily a bad approach? And can it be a better approach than empathy? Three main variables to consider imo when giving tough love, the recipients disposition and their state of mind, good intent that's evident through what you say and/or your history, the quality of advice given.

While the first is difficult to do, especially on an online forum, it can be done.

You can look at how users have responded to some approaches of advice given in their threads. I've seen some receptive and even thankful of such advice in their threads. Admittedly I haven't seen anyone respond negatively to an empathetic approach. Yet this site is geared towards a particular way to respond and consider things (ideally, at least) if you go through some threads in which docjohn has responded to. This is not necessarily a critique, as it does strive towards more empathy. But it does limit the "types" of responses to the point that tough love is considered unsupportive. Anyways, to the point.

The best aspects of empathy imo is that it's non judemental, doesn't necessarily take sides, and acknowledges the persons pain and humanity. But perhaps a time comes when judgement is needed. Like when someone is doing something at the expense of others or lacks self awareness, to which tough love could be useful.

The advice has to be right. If you make an incorrect observation or insight, you appear presumptuous. However, there's the possibility that what you say is "correct" and gives the right kick to make the recipient contemplate what's said, and even realize it's right. Even though what was said might hurt initially.

That's not something empathy typically does.

Sisabel and sarahswerts mention that tough love is being conflated with a dissenting perspective or direct and honest feedback. But I would say that a dissenting perspective can be tough love because it can go against the recipients feelings and actions, and doing either has the potential to momentarily cause some emotional hurt.

It's simply to a smaller degree than the more extreme cases you provided in previous posts.

Here's some more comments on tough love if you want

What is your stance on " Tough Love" and it'''s effectiveness? : AskMen

Should also note to all incoming users, feel free to inject your own tough love into the thread idea and my opinions.
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