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theoretical
Thank you very much for sharing your insight. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts; you are a deep thinker. I will likely read this post several more times and let your ideas simmer in my mind. I may add later but would like to share a few reactions right away.
While narcissists present an image of a mature adult, if you dare get close enough to one, you'll find that their "real self," however little there is that's real, is shockingly immature. Why? Because they never present their "real self" long enough for it to be recognized by another. Consequently, it never develops.
Prior to reading your message, I was aware of the immaturity and lack of a well-developed Self (though narcissists are often initially misunderstood as very confident and self-assured). But you took this to another level by pointing out
they never present their "real self" long enough for it to be recognized by another. Consequently, it never develops This is a very astute point.
You reminded me of my ex-husband. He used to get very irritated because his young nieces always seemed more attached to me when they visited and often ignored him...not in a rude way...they just didn't gravitate toward him whereas he described them as "hanging on" me. Anyway, I don't know if you've noticed but children have much better BS detectors than most adults. In my experience, they see through pretense and facade very easily....they are naturally drawn toward authenticity. So, looking back I think they were drawn to me because I was always real with them....just myself (plus I was kind to them of course) whereas he (took me a while to realize) was not comfortable in his own skin. I think they picked up on that. Later, one niece was reflecting on her uncle to me after I had left him: "He's like a chameleon. Have you noticed? He used to love cats now he hates cats and loves dogs. It doesn't make much sense. Like he's just different things to different people." Talk about OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF BABES!
It isn't necessarily that we seek "close relationships," but rather that we seek recognition from others.**** This is evident in the Narc/Vic relationship, which is close, but neither party is receiving the recognition they need to be truly fulfilled. We're seeking to have our humanity acknowledged, our thoughts valued, etc., and when we fail to receive that, it's detrimental to our psychological well-being and impedes our self-growth.
I'm going to give this more thought.
While we can get recognition from acquaintances, colleagues, or even complete strangers, it's only those closest to us who see us at our most honest, who see every aspect of us, both our strengths and weaknesses, and who we trust to offer the most honest opinion. It's in our closest relationships where we can get the most genuine recognition and the most complete reflection of our Self.
I only partially agree with this. Yes, people closest to us will know us better in a sense but I've also seen how closeness can create blindspots. People often overlook or are completely oblivious to certain traits of a close partner. For example, a wife who had no idea her husband was unfaithful for over a year. Could be denial in some cases but I think there are times when people closest to someone are actually LESS aware of their weaknesses than those with more distance. Similarly, we often don't appreciate those closest to us as much as we should....we take their strengths for granted or even play out our own frustrations with a partner because they are closest.
I don't think it is possible for a human to ever completely know"every aspect" of another human....the Self that others recognize is at best what we transmit to the outer world. But we each have a private inner world. Humans still have thoughts and feelings which they keep to themselves. I discussed this with a psychologist once. She agreed: "You can lie in bed next to someone every night and share a home and life with them but you will never actually know what's going on in their mind....you will never know them completely." Even in the best relationships, we are always holding something back. Or, I could argue that the best relationships are ABLE to occur because each partner holds something back....darker thoughts, past secrets etc.
That may sound cynical but I don't mean it that way at all. The notion that we partner with someone by completely giving up everything about ourselves....privacy, boundaries etc is not a healthy one. Young folks often try this and the relationships tends to burn out very quickly. Living in each other's pockets so to speak....becoming enmeshed.....when there is no separateness and little held back.....the Self becomes smothered and resentful. The Self by its very nature cannot be fully split or shared with another. For example, does a partner really want to know about your previous sexual relationships? Do they need to know all the details? Likely not.
The healthiest lasting relationships are when one fully developed Self meets another fully developed separate Self and they share a life via attention and work on the YOU the ME and the WE. When any of the three aspects is ignored or denied or abused, misery ensues. If you look around at most romantic relationships (even happens with some family members or friends) the most common and detrimental mistake occurring is zero attention to the YOU and the ME....most young people grow up thinking that you get married and become a WE and there is no more YOU and no more ME. This is at the root of all marriage problems and divorce.
I know three couples who never do anything separately....other than their day jobs. Every social event is shared. There are no guys' nights etc. This has actually begun to alienate some of their other friends....single and partnered...because they don't ever get to spend time with just the one partner....or just the guys etc. Those three couples think that's what marriage is supposed to be....being enmeshed....and I would predict that all three will be divorced or dealing with extramarital affairs within ten years. I'd gladly be wrong but when you squash your own self, you cannot maintain that and something has got to give.
But the movies and songs continue
to promote flawed notions of "You complete me" and "I cannot live without you" ...."I did not exist until I met you"...."I only became a real person when I met you....your love has made me real!" Those are delusions. Another human cannot complete the Self for someone. People try, all the time, and wind up miserable (and often abused or abusing). My brother is one of the most miserable humans I have ever known and yet he firmly believes: "If I only met the right woman, I KNOW I would be happy!" Nope brother. Sorry. No woman on earth can delete your negative thoughts about yourself or create self-esteem for you. That is why all of his relationships end in misery.
That being said, I think you can develop an Identity without close relationships, but it likely won't be as strong because no one gets to see you completely.
I will give this more thought.