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Old Mar 24, 2008, 01:09 AM
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If I really genuinely believed that someone who didn't have MY concept of spirituality was going directly to hell when they died (as is explicitly endorsed by a number of religions) then doing everything in my power to make them come to adopt MY conception of spirituality would be an expression of caring. I'd be saving their immortal soul from an eternity of torment and terror, you see. And no matter how much they want me to stoppit in the present life, I would (on this view) know best.

And if someone is of such a view then there really isn't anything much that I can say to them (or that they can say to others with different though equally vehemently held views).

To think that spirituality is a private matter. Something that means different things to different individuals (and where each of those ways is equally valid). Is to run contrary to the majority of the worlds religions. Those religions maintain that there is ONE RIGHT WAY to salvation and that if you see things differently then YOU ARE WRONG AND WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY FOR YOUR SINS. Trouble is that there are so many of those religions to pick from and they are (on the official line of them) mutually exclusive.

There isn't really any such thing as an a-theoretical take on spirituality. To say that there is one and only one right way is just as controversial as to say that there are many different ways and all are equally valid.

I guess from my perspective... Tolerance should be promoted as much as possible - and the limits on what is possible rule out tolerating intolerant views.

But that is to value tolerance above all else...
Something that the (official version of) the worlds major religions would reject...

Because my take on spirituality is to see it as tolerance and caring and wonder and awe and peace etc for me spirituality comes apart rather (indeed, is less likely to be found) in religions where the official line in the religion is one of intolerance.

But that is according to my take. If you define spirituality as having a relationship with a particular creator god (as your religion defines him) then the thought is that being a part of that religion is the only way one can have a relationship with that particular creator god and hence being part of that religion is the only way that one really can be spiritual.

Hence... The confusion around how on earth atheists can have a conception of (and experience) spirituality.

So from my perspective you are less likely to find spirituality in established religion than you are to find it outside established religion.
And from their perspective you are less likely to find spirituality in atheists than you are to find it in established religions.

And there isn't much of a middle ground really that I can see (except that some individuals have a more 'higher power' conception of spirituality and don't identify with a particular established religion and that some individuals who are members of a particular established religion basically reject some of the dogmas of their established religion and have a ... more 'higher power' conception of spirituality).