That was annoying. I finished writing and then my browser crashed.
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That sounds like a toxic environment, or a culture for which there are some serious divides! Perhaps you can't move out of that culture (at least not right away), but there are safer subcultures to find when mainstream culture is that ostracizing. I'm sorry that you went through all that, and all those microaggressions.
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It is a toxic environment, but finding subcultures has been difficult. The mainstream culture here is a quite more intense than other mainstream cultures. Being within the normalcy gap is quite important in order to have any chance of being respected.
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You have some awesome hobbies - some of which are attractive in their own right! The feedback you have received comprises differences between hobbies, one being more intellectual, the other being more physical (e.g., hiking). What say those physical extroverts who encounter someone with a physical disability who cannot do those things, or people who prefer intellectual stimulants to physical stimulants? They are closed-minded if they will react to you as if their way is the only/best way. It speaks to their lack of cultural and individual differences, their lack of diversity training and empathy for different others. It's one thing to not be compatible, but another to be judgmental. They sounded judgmental and rude. You're right; this is not encouragement, and it does little to boost your self-esteem. You need more healthier environments with like interests, or even healthier environments where people know how to build trust with someone who likes different things. It's easier, however, to find circles of people who hold similar interests because the chances of being judged harshly get reduced.
Thanks for understanding the safety issues with women. To me, that means so much hearing that from a man. (I was hurt by men in my past.) But what you have experienced is not the same thing; you experienced rudeness and judgment. For men, I can see how those responses you've received were "not safe."
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I take my hobbies much more seriously than just a hobby, like some people here do hiking. I play competitive chess since I was a kid, and when I move to Europe I want to try to get my grandmaster title. With foreign languages, I took three in high school and thereafter learnt over 15 by myself. I have native level in Spanish and near-native in others like Portuguese, but this does not seem to be appreciated here. I guarantee that "But why do you not go hiking?" and other comments are going to come sooner rather than later.
I am an only child, so I have no sisters. But sometimes I discuss dating with my mother. I get a female perspective from her. I try to arrange meeting with women (in the rare instances that this happens) in well-lighted establishments with a lot of people in accessible areas such as Downtown instead of some suburb with poor public transit, poor lighting and high crime.
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It's almost as if the culture there equates "weirdness" with "bad." That isn't true, and it certainly isn't a rational or healthy way to look at social differences, or diversity. Most of the women there may be as you described, but there is still hope to find women who aren't that way. It may be harder to find in such a culture, but it exists somewhere. I was born and raised in So. Cal., and I left because I didn't quite fit with all the other women and the other men's expectations. I also dealt with a lot of trauma while there, too. It's stressful to have to figure out what your next move is, and when it boils down to it, you have to build your psychological hardiness enough to know that you can only be you (without the fake mask), and that you can learn to enjoy being you no matter what mainstream culture says.
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Absolutely weird is considered bad here. And I wish that I could meet women who were not judgemental like this. I am not going to say that all the women here are like that--unfortunately I have met so many that are, but surely there are some that are not. And regarding Southern California, my impression of Los Angeles and that surrounding area was that there was a lot of hot weather, people obsessed with superficial things like sex and looks, movie-stars, people obsessed with money, etc. I think that both San Francisco and Los Angeles now suffer from these flaws, with San Francisco recently edging out Los Angeles in terms of being more superficial. I can understand why you moved. I probably would not get along with most Southern Californians either.
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It was rude and ignorant of those extroverted people to respond the way they did to you. It was demeaning, and it speaks to their lack of training in diversity. You could easily replace that situation with a foreigner who visits another country, or a refugee who is trying so desperately to assimilate without losing his/her own cultural beliefs and practices. You did well in engaging the conversation and answering their (rude) questions or comments. I'm sorry you went through that! What should have been a more appropriate response would be, "Hey, your interests are unique, different, but interesting. Can I hear more about what you like? Say, maybe we can change the juke box or music and have a party with those songs. It would be fun!" --My mock response here speaks to the ways in which extroverts could still maintain their authenticity while engaging with introverts who are appreciated for their authenticity. Like cultural differences, we can learn about each other's different likes and dislikes while also coming up with an activity that we can all share together, a healthy give-and-take. If those are people you know, maybe they felt that they could be blunt with you. However, if those are people you don't know, that was really rude of them! Actually, it was really rude of them to say that no matter if they knew you or not, but sometimes when we know people, they try to fix us and transform us into someone like them. Not cool when you truly don't want to be like them; you truly want to be respected for who you are.
Do not take what they said to heart. It was an extroverted environment, kind of like a foreign land to introverts, and they weren't welcoming. It's a learning experience, but not a place you would return to find a date/mate. It's a great place to visit once in a while, that is, without the rude responses, but it's not your typical cup of tea.
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Your mock responses sound very rational, but unfortunately here you rarely hear that. You are either weird or normal, and any type of less-known tastes in things like music are not taken well here. I know, I do not know them well and they were rude, but it is disconcerting that you can hope to meet better people, then the next set of events people are similar or even worse.
Maybe extroverted people in their environments have their own type of socialising that makes no sense to us. But your analogy of being in a foreign land is interesting. Having just been in foreign lands but two days ago, I felt more at home there than in my own hometown. Granted, I know the languages, but even with the foreign customs and culture I felt more at home, even with the people. They just were more respectful and not as judgemental.
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Liking what you like is actually really cool to me! I grew up with a family who listened to Lawrence Welk and folk music. I still appreciate music from the past, music that most of my peers didn't know.
When I was 40 and an undergrad, it was so hard for me and my peers to agree on music, movies, etc. Half the time, I didn't know what they were references, and most of the time, they had no clue what kind of things I liked (except if their parents liked the same things I liked). I was often mistaken for being someone's mother, as opposed to being a student. I lived with it, and I reminded myself I was there for a purpose. Nevertheless, some of what I heard hurt and reduced my self-esteem. It took me a while to bounce back. There are many differences in life, and sometimes we have to assure ourselves that we're not the problem here, that we deserve respect, too.
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This sounds weird, but my cultural references are older than those of your own generation, Generation X. I relate culturally move to baby-boomers, especially those born in the 1940s and 1950s. I understand also your experience as an undergraduate. When I myself as an undergraduate, I often did not get along with people who were my own age. They thought that I was this 70 year old man transplanted into the body of an 18 or 19 year old. So I had the physical age the same, but the mental age was much older.
I understand the dent in self-esteem. Undergraduate-age students can lack maturity and empathy, and it shows. I dealt with it in my own way by not socialising at all, and I had no friends. That was a poor solution, but it is what it is.
At least you get told you are someone's mother--I get told that I am like their grumpy grandfather. I have gotten the grandfather comment a lot, and even some women on dates told me that I act more like their grandfather than a guy their age.
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You know more history than I do! Thanks for that! Anyway, they are rude and ironical, indeed! I faintly remember John Lennon, but I do know the reference. That seemed like a cool look that others should have respected. I'm now wondering, why the disdain? Are there political reasons for this, not just stylistic?
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I think that John Lennon represents the antithesis to San Francisco. Just hear his most popular song "Imagine" in which he sings about basically no conflicts, no money, love one another, accepting others. People in San Francisco now are obsessed with making money, careers, looks, sex, etc. and having low levels of empathy for those less fortunate than them. I mean there are newspaper articles about how people in San Francisco complain that they hate stepping over homeless people on their way to the hipster coffeeshop to buy their $10 cup of coffee. Not because they feel sad for the homeless, but rather the homeless are hindering them from getting to the coffeeshop in time to get their $10 coffee. It is dystopic, and I think that talking about money and careers not being as important as respecting people and acceptance is simply not well-accepted here.
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That's a cool look! It almost reminds me of that 70's TV sitcom. PS: I had no idea who Ray Manzarek was, but after looking at the pic, I remember him from somewhere. That's an awesome look to sport! Whoever thinks differently can go suck it - just kidding, I think. You have a lot of attractive qualities, and having your own style speaks to the good parts of your self-esteem, the parts where you are authentically you! That's awesome! You're not trying to fit in with everyone, but you are kind enough to know and appreciate differences. Sadly, other people are being really mean and nasty toward you. You deserve to be you and not have others try to change you. Those are not friends; those are judgmental, toxic people.
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The Doors were quite popular in the late 1960s, and they are one of the bands that I listen to. Again, more irony--San Francisco were the psychedelic capital of the world in the late 60s. Now it is gentrified and filled with tech that this hippie, relaxed mentality is severely criticised as people who are lazy and do not want to work 15 hours a day in tech offices.
When you have very clean-cut people with guys in office shirts (and sneakers for some reason) and women in dresses, you can see that someone like me sticks out very much with long hair and 60s glasses. But still, I am not deterred. I have had the hippie look for most of my life despite being born in 1989. But I do get criticised since Ray Manzarek was born in 1939, 50 years before I was born. In other words, he was from a different generation, and people here think that I am silly for trying to look like him.
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I'm so sorry you are struggling with the toxic dynamics of their culture. There may be benefits to their culture, but it's hard to see when you're not a part of it, and are a target of their criticisms and political vitriol. There are some nice people in such social groups, but they are hard to find sometimes. I love aviator glasses! I own a pair myself - the kind that look like mirrors. They don't look right on my face, but once in a while, I will wear them just because I like them. Anyway, you are aware to know the differences between the SES classes, and they are subcultures themselves, often politically charged. It is hard, especially in this day and age, to find some common ground or kindness from those who differ politically. I'm sorry you struggle with that, too. Still, it shouldn't be a negative reflection of who you are.
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The money-making obsession is huge here--and yes you are right, if you are not in it, people will denigrate you, and a lot. I remember in a newspaper there was a tech guy who wrote about how he was talking to a working class man who was a SF native. The man wanted to invest $1000 into his garden as a business or something. The tech guy said that he laughed at the man and said that $1000 is not even good enough for one week's rent, and that tens of millions of dollars would be required to even be considered seriously. The man got offended and the tech guy left, but suddenly felt guilty for making fun of the man. He wrote that he acted so insensitively because he was groomed in the tech culture of money money money, and made fun of the guy out of sheer disrespect. Credit to him for acknowledging his terrible attitude and admitting his mistake, but this type of mindset is very prevalent.
The poverty line in San Francisco is considered as anyone who makes below $120000, and average rent for one person is almost $4000 per month. I think that this is a problem that drives this type of horrid mindset about money here.
I do love my aviator glasses. They give me sentimental value, just like my round John Lennon glasses that I used to wear. The music as well, I love. This is why I asked this thread in the first place. I can play guitar, bass and piano (although not well), and I can perform these older bands' songs. I would love to perform them for a girlfriend. Especially this one:
I often think, "Imagine if I had a girlfriend". I am a very serious, stoic person who shows little emotion, but the times when I get lonely and think about having a girlfriend to be with, I will not lie, tears form in my eyes and sometimes I struggle to hold them in.
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Down the road from SF is Berkeley. I visited both UC Berkeley and Stanford a few years ago. Both towns are drastically different! Berkeley might be a better place for you to find more welcoming circles with similar interests. There were many people who matched your description, and I visited about 5 years ago. I'm not sure how far you are from Berkeley, but it might be worth a trip every month or so. Again, I'm sorry for all that you are going through with being a target of attack. That's not fair or right, especially given the history of SF.
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I have actually thought about visiting Berkeley again. Last time I visited was quite a while ago, in 2005 when I was just a teenager. Right now I kept putting it off because I am afraid to ride BART. There have been some horrifying news about holdups and such on the train, and I keep getting scared about going there. Acquaintances who do go there, however, tell me that it is a friendlier place than SF.
Stanford is quite far though. And gives me bad memories. One girl whom I knew from chess and liked for over a decade and who attended Stanford Medical School once asked me to Valentine's Day three years ago. When I confirmed the day that we were going, she suddenly told me that she was going with someone else. That really destroyed me psychologically, and destroyed a lot of my trust in people. Every time I think of Stanford I think of that Valentine's Day and that girl where I thought that for once I would go out, but ended up alone at home as usual.
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Wow - you must be super intelligent! I used to love all that, but I've missed my opportunity to study all that. I've also never taken a chem class, not even in HS. I want to learn for fun, but not for a grade, because I know I will suck at it. Still, it would be awesome for me to get to the level of learning organic chem. But I may be dreaming here, LOL.
Anyway, your plans for the future are awesome! IT is a different field, altogether, but I have friends of all types who hold different interests, including science, medicine, psychology, law, IT, criminal justice, etc. I try to find something nice in each discipline, even though they don't always see me or my likes as something they admire. I'm into criminal justice now, but I have a bachelor's degree in psychology (minored in a subfield of CJ though). I qualified years ago for a computer science course involving Fortran and C++ at the time, I believe. That was back in the early 1990s. I decided that IT wasn't for me. I liked more of the social sciences. I would give anything to have your talent with math, chem, and other hard sciences! I was able to earn A's in math courses such as calculus and statistics, but I cannot remember much of the math anymore. I miss having a mathematical mind. I miss the equations and problem-solving. With your talents, and with your goals, I'm sure you will make for a great mate to some lady with similar interests. I have a mentor whose husband works for Harvard, and she met him there before she graduated from Harvard. She helps me with writing once in a while, but I cannot afford her fees at the moment. Anyway, they are happily married, both from Harvard; her husband being a physics professor at Harvard, and she being a Literature Major. They have completely opposite fields, but, from what I hear, they have the most interesting conversations. They do have many other similarities, however, such as religion and SES, but they are so friendly to "the underdog" or to those who are not as affluent as they are. When I think about their happy connection and marriage, I think of you. I know you will find someone, but maybe the timing and place is off. Maybe you might meet the woman of your dreams in SF, or maybe you might make many friends around the world, some of which started off in SF before they moved, and then later, connect with them to share in your successes, and among one of them, find and/or reconnect with the woman of your dreams - to settle down, have kids, start a career. The skies the limit, and with your skills and talent, you could make six-figures! But, even if you make that high of an SES, you will still be kind to us lower SES folks. I know it!
Don't give up! You have so much going for you - so much more than you know right now.
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I am not sure if I am that intelligent, I feel like I am just the average guy. I notice that we introverts seem to do well in hard sciences and mathematics. Most of the women whom I meet tend to be in humanities, such as sciences or art or gender studies or if not, in business administration and stuff. Other than the foreign languages, I am terrible in humanities. The abstractness and lack of concrete answers like mathematics makes it hard for me. Probably why I tend to do badly in social situations--how does one "know" how to act when, unlike for example differential equations, you can just identify the type of equation, reverse-engineer the problem, generalise and categorise the equation, then apply the solution? How to do this without knowing what the "answer" is?
The IT field is not really my thing at all. I am not into technology, in fact I am so oldschool that I have a rotary dial working and is my main home phone. Just few years ago I had an old twist-knob TV that was fully functional until they cancelled the contract due to TVs having to have digital functions in order to operate. But I never was into computers. I did not use Internet until 2002, which was way later than most people. Extremely rare for someone born in 1989.
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It seems like conformity is a value in that SF culture of elites. I'm so sorry you are struggling with all this, but you have a right to be you, bluntness and all. Maybe you can change the words you use when you are blunt, but don't change who you are just for the sake of conforming. Sure, in workplace settings, it might be more appropriate to conform, but in your own personal life, and in some aspects of your job, it is important that you be your authentic self. Maybe find ways to appreciate the tech guys once in a blue moon, but find people who are more interested in the hard sciences that you really enjoy. I'm thinking of math clubs, math conventions, chem clubs, forensic science conventions, biology conventions, etc. You're likely to find more people there who are appreciative of you than at techy places. It's sad when there is a divide between tech and the hard sciences. I know there are cultural differences, but I also believe in collaborative science and interdisciplinary research. Imagine what could be done when both tech and hard sciences work together, appreciate their different cultures? You may not be best of buds, but it's possible for both parties to understand their differences while maintaining their authentic selves.
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About San Francisco, I think that yes the elites seem to have this weird conformity culture. The people who are not in high positions however also adopt this mindset. I mean, people are so superficial that they prefer talking in text-to-text chats rather than face-to-face, and I read that online dating is favoured over face-to-face dating. One concerning thing that I read was that in the online dating scene, from what I understand, a non-White man has to earn over $100000 more in their salary in order to be considered dateworthy to a woman compared to a White man. This type of superficial rubbish is just horrific to me, and probably attests again to how I do not fit in here.
About dating, I found these links:
8 (Completely True) Reasons Why Dating in San Francisco is so Difficult
Why is dating in San Francisco so hard? - Quora
5 Reasons Dating in San Francisco Is so Freaking Hard | HuffPost
Why are people in the Bay Area so rude? - Quora
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/st...ncisco/1300158
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That's awesome that you are exploring the world and noticing the differences in culture. That experience alone should demonstrate that you will find the right circles eventually, and that there are many different types of people other than what you've experienced in SF. You have so much going for you, including your intelligence to see the differences around you. Your dress style and taste in music, etc., are awesome! They may seem unique to people in SF, but they may not seem that different from other circles you have yet to discover.
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I have always loved travelling. I definitely notice the difference in attitudes of the people in other countries and here. Going back to my time in the UK, I remember once at a supermarket when I was paying, the girl at the till told me how she really liked my John Lennon glasses, and conversed a bit with me since there was no one behind me in the queue. That never happens here. Not even once.
But here, I have received some really concerning insults, like being called "virgin loser" or being outright laughed at. The most alarming incident was once where a girl gave me the double middle finger when finding out that I have always been single. Which drives into my fear that I would be single forever and need to prepare to be single. But I realised that I do not need to listen to these comments. Thankfully these incidents are rare, but still, it does absolutely nothing to help my self-esteem. But now, at least, I am trying to improve my self-esteem. It is hard however--like swimming upstream (me improving self-esteem) against a strong downstream current (people's attitudes to me).