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Old Aug 21, 2020, 01:13 AM
DechanDawa DechanDawa is offline
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Member Since: Nov 2015
Location: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
The label narcissist has become the label most commonly used to affix to people that are difficult or in someway need more attention or to stand out in some kind of grandiose way. Often it's an individual that did not stand out more in their childhood and there was some kind of ongoing unmet need that took place. Something that wounded their sense of self, a narcissistic injury of somekind. However, the other way this can develop is by being coached to feel entitled too and having everything done "for" you. And what many are taught is that if they get everything right, everything is somehow perfect, that it puts you on top and you get rewarded and have worth and deserve to be respected.

What I have learned about individuals that lean narcissistic is how they learn to "change" the narrative. It's a form of cheating and they learn how to manipulate and can even gaslight themselves. So basically, they begin to believe their own narrative which is why it can be hard to get to the truth and the WHY behind their distorted behaviors (cognitive distortions). Often, there is a deep seeded desire to stand out, to make up for their inability to somehow stand out in childhood, OR, that they were taught they are entitled to stand out too.

Actually, this behavior is observed in other primates where these primates that are born into the "superior" group simply learn they are entitled to privilages others not part of this group are allowed to have. Well, human primates practice this too. And that means it's pretty much in every culture too. There will always be that ruling class, it's part of our nature. It's pretty much in every group too. It's constantly marketed and monitored. And there will always be those that look for ways to manipulate their way towards obtaining status. So with that there will always be gaslighting and lies involved and varying degrees of pretending to care to make gains too. The higher up one gets the more prevalant it becomes. And for anyone that's climbed a ladder, it gets rather shakey up there so it's necessary to have others that can secure that from lower on the ground. Not only that but there is always someone on that ladder right behind in hopes to claim that higher level. It's just something that has always been there. The older one gets, the more life experience one has the more they see this reality. And that's why so many that are older say, "If only I knew then what I know now".

You know Dechan, it's very possible that this friend, even though she came from what you saw as a loving family, always saw that you had more. That your family had more wealth, a fancier and bigger home and maybe you had nicer clothes etc. Perhaps that was something she wanted, that's often the case and there was a bit of jealousy there that you did not notice. And that transcends beyond physical beauty or even the silly giggles. Maybe, she had a different idea of what that was supposed to be like and even though she has a nice house and material things, something is missing for her. Maybe her husband was good at impressing everyone else but her too. Maybe he is not the prince charming others think he is and she has not been happy in her palace. This happens all the time. All that glitters is not gold and she is now older and more aware of how stuck she is. And because she could not get you to see that, she blew up at you. And ofcourse, considering where you are right now in a genuine difficult place, the last thing you needed was for her to take all this anger out on you. Instead of seeing where you really are, she was seeing you as having more power than her and needing you to comfort her even though you are clearly in such a challenged place right now.

So as a result, you feel blindsided and that really can "hurt". There are times that a person is so self involved that they fail to see important things, things that are significant to another person. And when this happens it can hurt deeply and it can be easy to come to a conclusion the other person must be a narcissist. That's because narcissists are known to be very self involved and fail to recognize the needs of others and feel genuine empathy for them. And sometimes, a person can only pretend to care as they know it's important to do so in order to gain attention to themselves and get their needs met. And often they develop what is known as "fake petting" to keep others at least feeling like they are important, when in reality they are just used to hold up the ladder needed to feed the individuals ego.








Hmmm. All interesting stuff. Food for thought.


I might not have as much in material things at the moment as this person does...but I have a richness in education...having seven more years of schooling. I know she feels like she is lacking because she does not have advanced degrees. But she could have gone on for more schooling at any time in her life. So education is something I value because I think it gives us a wider perspective...and can really help in times of adversity. There are many ways to become educated including mental health programs, therapy, clubs, volunteering, work, spiritual communities, reading, attending lectures etc. This person doesn't engage in any of that. Her main hobby is shopping.


As to how she feels about her life, her husband, that she isn't happy in her situation -- that is something she should bring into a therapeutic situation.


I DO think she feels that friendship is a form of therapy...and maybe she uses friendships to complain. This is going to test the best friendship.


I sought out temporary counseling to talk about this situation and told her I did. Obviously it didn't fully satisfy me...as here I am! -- but I think of Psych Central as essential peer support and peer-led therapy, kind of. I hope that makes sense. The people here have a tremendous amount of experience.


As far as whether or not she is an authentic narcissist...I don't know. A lot of modern people exhibit narcissistic qualities. I think the exception is people in spiritual communities. People in spiritual and religious communities are trying to reduce egotism, and serve others. So in general people in these settings are better at inter-relational communication.


One thing that rings true is how narcissists create their own narrative. I have experienced this...and I truly find it the worst trait of a narcissist. They always seem to think THEIR WAY is the ONLY WAY. That is absurd. Life is totally relative. There is no one truth. The only way we can get along is if we can allow space for different views. However, we, of course, gravitate towards those with similar views.

I want to say that...I feel that this person has the right to feel however she wants. Everyone has that right. I was okay with her wanting to end the friendship. I was only NOT OKAY with her unnecessary verbal attack.

I think your narrative about her childhood and feeling I had more is not really true. We both were raised solidly middle class. My mother was extremely creative so mainly she knew how to "create magic" with her creative hand...and my friend really envied that and tried to emulate that in her adult life. Our house was rich in the creative arts, music, singing, playing instruments and things like that. We were allowed to paint and decorate our bedrooms with whatever themes we desired. My mother had a circle of very creative friends so it wasn't a solitary obsession. But my Mom was so much more than someone obsessed with appearances. My mother had a full-time career, earned advanced degrees late in life, and was a well-known activist...for those with mental health difficulties, the indigent elderly, and impoverished minorities.


Narcissists always try to "copy" others...but in a very shallow and superficial way. So, yes, they are always kind of "cheating" to come off as more than than are. I find that irritating.


I will confess that I am never totally comfortable with describing narcissists as such. After all, this is a personality disorder, and I am not a mental health professional.


But our culture does seem to display a lot of narcissistic qualities...which are seen as enviable. I think the present crisis in our country is due to an internal rupture because as a society essential needs are not being met...while narcissism...i.e. the social media culture...reflects unreality. A warped narrative.

You obviously had studied all this very deeply. Understanding a problem is so important. Ultimately it should lead to compassion.

It is "against the grain" for me to not be compassionate towards this person who I have known for a lifetime. But she has hurt me too deeply. It is going to take time. But you remind me that deep awareness and understanding is the ONLY WAY and the only road to compassion...which is the antidote for most ills of modern life.

Thank you for holding a space for compassion to arise. I am not yet ready...but I appreciate your balanced observations.
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Last edited by DechanDawa; Aug 21, 2020 at 02:01 AM.
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