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katiescarlett said:
After identifying the problem and trying to get to marriage couselling trying to talk it out for months, how long should I give chances, please please let me know. Maybe being an "N" yourself, you can tell me why this is happening to me. What am I doing wrong? Help me if you can. Please.

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Dear katiescarlett,

from every word you write I can feel how desperate you feel. And how angry and sore. You are deeply stuck in an emotional fight, and I understand every single bit of it.

I am diagnosed as a severe case of NPD, and so at first I felt hurt and misjudged reading what you wrote in your opening posting, because it sounded like "this is the definite truth about narcissists in general". Reading again and thinking it over I now see how hurt and distressed you probably may be.

And I understand and totally accept that. Feelings cannot and do not lie. In my opinion you simply and openly spoke the truth about how you feel in your situation, and I see the necessity of doing so.

Nevertheless, let me try to explain a few things out of my experience and from my personal point of view regarding the effects of the N personality disorder. Maybe this will help you and me and other readers to see some things in a different light and with a new understanding.

NPD causes anti-social and anti-empathetic behavior, and this misbehavior is apt to cause serious damages, no doubt. And it is fully understandable to look for protection and prevention, especially when children are involved, again no doubt.

But not only the ones next to a N are victims of this disorder, the N himself (or herself) suffers from that, too. This PD destroys their lives either, driving everyone to run away as the only solution. It is important to know, that narcisstics do not only fear being lost and given up upon and being lonely - but knowing that this is their central weakness. Narcissism starts with neglect, emotional abuse or love withdrawal, lack of loving devotion and tender caring and things like that. And these wounds never ever really heal again.

A narcisstic person has learned the wrong lessons, and mostly already in early childhood, and these lessons could be described quite identically to those a victim of narcissism claims for himself: I don't really matter, I am not loved, I count nothing, my feelings are not important, I am not respected, I am mistreated, and so on and on...

But: A young child cannot run away. It does not have the option to leave. It has, to be clear in this, not many options at all. But it has to cope with this situation somehow.

So it will run away metaphorically - it will withdraw in its own world, seeking peace and comfort in the only safe place there actually is - in itself. Doing so over the times it becomes a habit and finally an essential part of the personality.

NPD is acquired! It is important to see and to understand that truly and deeply. NPD is in the beginning a self-protective behavior in order to survive in a hostile, threatening and harmful environment. And then the thing begins to take over control and dominates every relationship and becomes destructive in the life of the N.

I think, NPD has nothing to do with self-love, but a lot with excessive and uncontrollable self-protection. If noone else cares about ones needs and feelings, the N decides to do that in place of all the others, whose love and care he as a matter of fact would prefer if he only could believe that he would have a chance to get it. But he cannot believe in that, not anymore. It would be self-loving to develop and establish loving, stable and reliable relationships, especially in family and marriage. Feeling alone and isolated and on ones own is not fine for the N - in fact that hurts like it would hurt anybody. But the N is not able to cross his inner borders - at least he is not as long as he is not successfully treated. Opening, giving, taking care of others, being empathic - this has to be learned first.

One of the typical misunderstandings towards narcissism is, that many people seem to believe that narcissist could be loving etc. That they could if they only wanted. That they do intentionally and with full controll, what they do. But this is mostly a totally wrong impression and understanding. One can only do intentionally and superiorly what one has learned and learned to control before. And the lesson of how to love and trust and care is often unlearned and still to be learned. I cannot be too clear on that point.

Btw, I write this only to explain, not to apologize or trivialize NPD.

Without help and without a lot of painful pressure, most narcissists are not aware of all this. I felt quite right the way I was, until... until serious problems began and more and more trouble with people around me, so serious that I finally was forced to ask myself what my part and my responsibility was and why people always became upset with me. Now I know. But without help I would not have learned the truth about me and my disorder.

What can others do to help out of this mess? What's good and what is not? What would be the wrong thing to do?

I can not say so much here, only a few very personal thoughts.

It is always right to set limits and to show reaction, if hurt. I think it is good and right to confront the N with messages kind of you are doing wrong or you are doing harm.
And on the other hand, it is necessary to seek help. Partners can not solve a serious disorder like this alone without therapeutic help. Giving love is not helpful, it will not change a thing, because the N is not able to really get involved in the process of receiving and giving back, he has to learn first to open up, to become vulnerable, to bear things like fear of loss, jealousy and the whole of the small and big pains of love.

It is of course nothing wrong with loving a partner with NPD. But amors arrows will bump off the iron armour if the target is not receptive, I am afraid.

So first things first. And the first thing at all is to tear all protective walls down. And this requires of course consent. It will only happen if and when the N is readily and voluntarily cooperating in this process (that is very painful to him, because it means to look back on old wounds).

I hope this can help a little. I wish everyone who has to struggle with NPD to find the way out.

bluna