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Thanks for the additional feedback. I think I should add some more info and context. For starters, she and I are in our early 50s. Not sure it matters here, but I don't think I mentioned our ages. For me it matters because I feel I am having a mid-life crisis. Also in fairness to her, I got an earlier thing wrong. She did not ignore my question "will you be my girlfriend?" The next day we met and talked and she basically said "not yet" due to the issues.
TishaBuv:
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It sounds like she cares for you. It’s good that you are trying to curb the drinking, and it seems that is something she encourages you to do as well. Maybe you do have a future with her, if you can get it under control. Maybe don’t go to a bar next time, rather go for coffee?
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Yes, I think she cares in a way for me. But I sense a shift since I mentioned my money issues and since I openly commented on the two incidents where I got jealous of the guys. I agree that going for coffee so our minds are clear is a better idea. At the risk of psychoanalyzing her, my guess is that she leans anxious avoidant but values at least our friendship, which causes confusion from her side in addition to the confusion from my side. She also pointed out voluntarily at one point that her father is something of a womanizer and that before her death her mother had been pretty hurt by his actions.
My theory is that she has been attracted to me for certain qualities ranging from friendship to genuine erotic attraction. But I am not a womanizer. Not bragging, I couldn't be one if I wanted to. But maybe she has a different sense of flirting and jealousy as a result of seeing her father's behavior. And during that recent argument, I recalled that the guy who ended up accompanying her home that night asked me at the party "is there something there?" and I replied "I'm trying." Her response was that she knew nothing of that conversation so it was an issue of his challenging me that had nothing to do with her. Which she is probably right about.
Nevertheless, it makes me wonder if, after the money issue and my emotional reactions on the jealousy that I failed some unconscious or only partly conscious test about the kind of man she wants in those cases - responsible and in charge but also understanding of flirting dynamics, in other words a man who won't act out or get immature if she flirts but will step in if the other guy is challenging too much. Seems like she does want monogamy but it is in her mind at this high bar where anything short of some commitment level that she decides, she is free to explore.
Have Hope:
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To me, regardless of what you said in the very beginning about just being friends, this has evolved into dating without saying it's exclusive dating outright to each other. Her giving her number to a guy at the bar in front of you, given all the intimacy between you prior to that was just downright rude of her, imo. It was also rude of her to abandon you at HER social event to go dance with other people while you sat on the sidelines, and then she allowed another man to walk her home when she had invited you to this social event? Very rude and inconsiderate. I understand that you may have insecurity issues, abandonment issues and a binge drinking problem. and it's great you are so aware of each issue, however, imo, she is being very rude, hurtful and inconsiderate towards you. These are not things that you do to someone you care about. These are things you do to someone you do not care about. I would personally dump the relationship and move on to someone else who will truly care for you because in my opinion, she doesn't give a rat's *** about you.
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I don't know if she doesn't give a rat's ***** about me. The thought crossed my mind for the first time during these past few weeks. She still doesn't think she did anything wrong, so I'm not sure there's any point in rehashing it. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she does care about me, but that doesn't excuse her behavior; nor does it mean she cares in the sense of a real relationship.
I guess I had been focused on her statements about being friend-zoned and took them as she cared about me enough to be upset and being turned down romantically at first. But of course it could just be that she couldn't believe that a guy would ever do that to her. I told her each time along the way that I did that to be honest and not to string her along. Now that I have developed feelings for her, I feel impotent and helpless due to my money troubles, and (thanks, anxious attachment, I see you lol) I am starting to have more emotional reactions about my potential romantic rivals. As if the tables have turned so to speak.
But she herself said something that I think is very true, and I should follow her lead. She said in therapy she discovered that she can't control what other people do, only what she does. So I have been trying to practice that myself (and also saw an article affirming this).
For example, I can feel jealous in a certain situation but that doesn't mean I should act on the jealousy. Very hard for me as I always feel like I am being made a fool of. But I am going to breathe and not act out in those situations. We'll see how it goes.
eskielover:
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He said that to avoid an emotional mess breaking up, he would do things that would make the girl mad at him & want to leave the relationship. Ya think girls/women don't do the same thing? Read the message.....it is pretty clear that she is NOT interested in you as someone exclusive & may just be using you for sex or someone to be with when there are no other options
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Yes that may be the case now. As I mentioned earlier, it seemed like the reverse situation before, but of course things can always change.
divine1966:
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It seems like every interaction you have involved alcohol. If whatever she says or does is also under the influence I’d not take anything seriously, neither good or bad. Sadly people, whose life evolves around mind altering substances, have impaired ability to make good judgement or sound decisions. Perhaps if you two sober up, you could take a look at what’s really going on. Until then it’s hard to say anything for sure.
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Agreed. I tend to binge which is tough. But I can also decide to go for stretches with no drinking at all. Next time she and I meet I will suggest we skip the alcohol.
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Good job trying to quit
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Thanks, very much appreciated. It's not easy, but I am trying.
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