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Originally Posted by [B sarahsweets;[/B]7176097]Hey @Motts: I cant quite relate specifically to ongoing sibling issues but I had some thoughts. Re: the books, were they books with maps and suggestions of places to go or eat? Were they the kind of travel books that pack hints in them about how to avoid being taken as a tourist and all the hidden gems to see like a local? Not that it matters mind you but I was wondering if it was possible that she read them ahead of time (although based on what you say thats probably BS) but I was just thinking. All of the history aside between you and your sister- from when you were little until now- have you ever directly said something like " We dont get along and I want to know why. I want you to just tell me the truth. Please join me for a therapy session to see if any of this can be fixed" Or if the therapy thing isnt your style you can be more harsh..." I feel like I am unloved and unliked by you and your family. I dont need any excuses about how its just me and my issues. I want you to honestly tell me all of it- every stinkin thing that puts you in the head space you seem to be in around me". Then say you will listen without interrupting and when she is done you will respond. Or a step further- come up with an expectation that works for you as what you expect but is also a boundary. Tell her the consequences of crossing or violating that boundary and stick with it. Hey @Motts I hope you understand that when I put myself in quotes its not because I think you need to say what I say, its just easier to make my point. First off I do not think any gifts for any reason should be exchanged anymore. No Bday, holidays, nothing. There is more to life than material goods and you will know more about their interest in your life once the check book is closed. Does any of that make sense? I make no bones about my own boundaries now. I now have the holidays with just my mom, brother and my own family. We couldnt take the racist hate from that side so we made the choice and now I love the holidays. I also regularly purge my Facebook. I only have good friends and family (I do not have issues with social media but some do) as friends and politics helped me ditch about 1/4 and then I go through them and delete them if I havent spoken to them or wouldnt go have lunch with them. Anyhow sorry to hijack.

RE: the two travel books significance. I chose these two because they are written by authors/travel bloggers who live in the city/country where my niece is currently studying abroad. She wants to do what these two writers do and so I reached out to the writers and explained my niece's situation. The two writers said they would be happy to meet with my niece in person while she's in their city - to help my niece establish professional networks there and with these two writers possibly get writing gigs, etc. as a step in her career ladder before her college graduation next year.

I TOLD my niece this when she unwrapped the two books and she said she was excited and thanked me. The books are a combination of Lonely Planet meets Chic as far as writing style (factual with some bloggy lingo + maps + photos). So, that is why I was shocked my niece didn't even have the decency to tell me she wasn't taking the books with her. She essentially burned the bridge I created for her with these two writers. I suppose she probably reached out to them on social media and connected with them that way too.

Their books are also available in e-digit form. But the sentiment was there: the two books were meant to be treated as a treasured gift from me, her aunt. Guess that's me projecting? Maybe? My feelings are hurt bc of the expectations I attached to giving her those two books. So, I take ownership of that.

Gift giving should not be conditional and my niece is allowed not to take the books with her. I guess my feelings are hurt bc I foolishly thought this would "fix" things between my sister and I and her daughter?

Yeah, I was wrong.

Oh, I tried the direct approach too this week when I spoke to my sister. In true narcissist form, my sister would NOT accommodate my request with a direct answer about why I'm at the top of her "people to manipulate" list. Her flying monkeys are her husband and children and our close relatives (she texts our aunts and uncle all the time, god knows what lies she's told them about me).

25 years ago we did family therapy and she and our brother blame shifted their manipulative behavior as the cause of me, which is such a joke. I'm as passive as they come...and a recovering codependent. I'm a master accommodator. I can placate the nastiest person with a firm "yes!" when I definitely mean "no!" And my siblings know this truth about my character.

We didn't last in family therapy after our family therapist called my sister and brother out for their manipulative lies during our therapy sessions. They quit going after the therapist called them both out and held them accountable for their choices. Because you see, narcissists don't like to be held accountable for their behavior.

I'm trying to figure out how to tell my sister my new boundary: that I won't be available to dog sit. In fact, I have a truthful reason. Some friends invited me to take a trip to go visit them the same week of my sister's trip with her family to Florida. So, there is my valid reason. She can easily have their next door neighbor walk over the 20 feet to let their dog out and feed the dog 3 times a day.

They did it before. As much as I love my sister's dog, I don't want to dog sit anymore b/c it feels like I'm an indentured servant. It's expected because I never say no, out of fear that my sister will pull the silent treatment act. But now that I know her daughter doesn't respect me, and her two sons are too young to think for themselves still about their mom's toxic sister-relationship and where they see me, I can't hep her sons see the truth about my sister's narcissism until they are older.

Yes, and this was 11 years ago. I knew bringing him over there to her house was not going to end well and I was correct. All of the men I introduced to my sister fled. Sure, I'm guessing they weren't a good fit for me for my own reasons with them (that made us incompatible with each other already).

My sister has disparaged me to anyone who will listen and she does it with a sneering smile on her face. Then denies it when I find out and directly ask her "Why?" She plays the victim card to avoid being held accountable, "You always pick on me. Maybe you're projecting your own insecurities with these guys on to me b/c I'm an easy target. Why would I tell them to run away from you? I want you to be happy." She's a good actress. Her crazy making skills are sharper than a Number 2 pencil tip.

She loves to blameshift. She blameshifts with her husband and children who probably see that my sister's a real self-centered narcissist and are just complacent for their own reasons. She's the type to accuse you of being emotionally divisive, when she's the one who is emotionally divisive. Does that make sense?

I'm proud of you for grey rocking your relatives while you live with your mum. Being cordial and pleasant is definitely a form of grey rock b/c it's surface level socialization. As long as we remember not to let these narcissists in deeper, we'll be safe.

I forget to do that with my sister and niece but now I feel ready to start developing that cordial greyrock method myself. Walk my own talk, if that makes sense. I mean, neither of them ever initiate social plans with me so they already ignore me. I just need to stop deluding myself that I can make them genuinely like me b/c they don't and have no desire to. So, I take ownership of that delusional thinking.

It's an extremely toxic triangle relationship between my niece, her mom(my sister) and I. I know my sister's parenting is responsible for some of my niece's indifference and rudeness towards me. Because my niece loved me when she was very little and was always calling me on my cellphone or sending me silly emails when she was in elementary school. That all stopped by the time she turned 15 and she literally stopped communicating with me after that altogether, unless I was invited over for birthdays or holidays. Then it was the requisite "hi aunt Motts" of polite, cordial behavior towards me that was obligatory more than genuine.

My heart hurts that I was not able to have a sister to emotionally bond with; who I could laugh and cry with mutually. At 51, I know that's just not possible because it never was possible. I have to stop being stubborn and just accept that my sister and her daughter want no part of my life.

I will definitely tell my sister that I have been invited to visit friends in another state the same week of dog sitting and will have to stand firm. My sister will do the guilt tripping but I am not going to budge. I love her dog but I'm done being her doormat. Her nextdoor neighbor can watch the dog for 7 days. That dog will survive without me being there.

There's a lot of dog sitters on different apps she could find herself; I won't suggest that as an alternative b/c that's not my job anymore. She's 49 years old. She's old enough to solve this problem. She will definitely become passive aggressive once I tell her no. You've inspired me to stand my ground b/c I'm such a wimp.

Has your sibling always bullied you? Don't beat yourself up about not seeing the red flags. I didn't know what the red flags were when I was younger. And, when we are entrenched...or enmeshed with our narcissist it's so hard to disentangle ourselves from our toxic pattern. So hard. I commend you on doing it with your sibling; establishing boundaries and sticking to them despite your sibling's passive aggressive responses. If you can do it, so can I (I hope).

It's always the kind siblings who become the fixed targets of the narcissist family members. We have no support even from the flying monkeys who support the narcissists b/c they don't want to lose their place of power (an illusion created for them by the narcissist sibling through great storytelling and embellishment that never gets fact checked or verified by the flying monkeys, b/c they are also self-involved).

Wow, that stinks DAL that your own family undermined your Big Brothers/Sisters volunteer interview by disparaging your character. Of course that's why you failed the interview: your family lied about you b/c you were strong enough to geographically and emotionally separate yourself from their poisonous grasp.

If you really want to foster children as a single mom you can do it. You can use other people to act as character references whom you know will validate you great character to the right social services people in charge. Toxic families are definitely poison to people like us in my thread, who deserve to lead happy, healthy, fulfilled lives. We just can't do that if we include these toxic family members in our lives.

I know this intellectually...now I just need to get my emotional state of mind to catch up so I can let go, grieve the loss of my toxic family and stop talking the big talk and do something about it. Being alone at 51 without any family will be scary but I have to do it. It will force me to find my "tribe." I'm tired of not pursuing the life I wanted to have 30 years ago. Right?!