Hi RodneyR, I've read all your post and I'm sorry. Sounds like this woman is a bad apple. Write this off and move on, build yourself up and then build a new life with a woman that's a better character, is more compatible with you, and has herself and her life put together better. And right now with the divorce drama and the whole divorce getting ahead, do not let yourself be taken advantage of. Do not enter bad drama however, you still need to act responsibly also because you need to keep the baby in mind. To give my input beyond this, I will comment on another post below as that will sum up most of my further thoughts on all this.


Interesting how the same post can be read so differently by different people. I read it as him still appreciating her or why else would he try so hard?! He himself puts it as, why give up at the first big challenge in life together. I fully agree with that - I myself would NOT want to give up at the first big problem to deal with. Life will never be perfect happy sunshiney, we all have to be able to deal with the challenges too. Otherwise what's the point of the relationship?!

But, not everyone is like that. Some will indeed give up and run away and be completely comfort-focused and self-absorbed like that.

And then, I read on all these posts, not just yours, and I think, it's like, he's taken responsibility already where many people would not, he's done things, he's not perfect, so what?! What more can be expected of him?! I would be REALLY glad if *I* had a boyfriend or husband like this. One that actually DOES do things for me *and* with me (going out, doing fun things) and is overall reliable and responsible like taking a month off from work, and moving the whole house himself, and trying to understand my emotional problems (e.g. this postpartum depression) and so on.

As far as the gaming. I don't see a problem there, if it was temporary and if all the most important chores were still done. The chores do not take 24 hours of the day, there can be time for relaxing too.

Note when I say most important chores, who cares if there is a little mess here and there in the house, the most important is get food, take care of the baby, have clean clothes and absolute basics like that. And I know I myself would not want to focus 24 hours a day (minus sleep) on the chores and the baby. That would just not be good, I believe this is called self-care in applied psychology/therapy/self-help.

Another note: I never did gaming myself, as I really dislike the idea of wasting time on video games, so that's not really the point here. The point is spend some of your day doing what you like doing to be able to relax and not completely run yourself down. If for OP this is gaming, then so be it. As long as it doesn't take time away from other things. Again, some people use the term self-care for this.

I mean she did divorce one time before. Now she wants to again when the baby is only 2 years old.

This is where it's the biggest tip off to me as far as her being a bad apple.

It could otherwise have just been incompatibility, BUT I heavily doubt that. Because:
1) it should have been figured out way sooner, not after the baby, if there was serious incompatibility.
2) Way too much drama in here for only compatibility being the issue.
3) As far as drama....that includes, her blaming things like her own lack of assertiveness on him, making him out to be the bad one for it. What she should have done is, own up to her giving in too much to him if that's how she truly feels, and THEN fix that, change that. Take responsibility and learn more assertiveness instead of doing drama. That's what she should have done instead of provocative drama and relational aggression.
4) The lack of taking responsibility includes things like, deciding OP is the one who has to learn about themselves....She somehow decided she herself is now the perfect person that's learnt everything about themselves. And overstepping boundaries by telling OP that he has to "properly love" someone else, he has to learn about himself, i.e. telling him what to do, think and feel. Especially about such intimate matters. Not okay in my book.
5) That thing about OP never being good enough. Another BIG red flag.

I will stop here, I think that was enough of a list. Even just the basic facts already show there is a big problem with her, even without this list. My opinion, of course, based on all the information here. It just shows that, though.

That is very interesting, because I would've been much like OP, taking it at face value. That woman sounds like too much drama..... Expecting others to mindread like this! What's more, attacking others, attacking the person supposed to be her life-long partner, doing the most extreme personal attack and relational aggression possible, and then expect to have her mind being read magically and be understood in that fashion! Expecting the impossible!

So again, you say she was being provocative. For what purpose or goal? Just venting emotion out there, taking it out on him? What's the point of that? Rhetorical questions. If she truly just wanted to share how unhappy she was, she wouldn't get manipulative and do drama like that, she would simply share her real feelings in a sincere way and would want to look for a solution after the feelings have been communicated and understood. Ofcourse, that would require someone more put together and mature than what this woman sounds like.

I agree with all this. Very good advice imo. I would add for OP, do NOT offer anything to this woman out of niceness, care, anything. It's too far gone for that. Keep the basic, reasonable behaviour, but do not go out of your way to give to her beyond that. Divorce means exactly that, that you can't go out of your way anymore like that. You have to focus on both your own interests, and on the baby's interests now, and not on hers beyond that.

Less defensive? Again, consider this bad personal attack that you did provide a great analysis of. Do you expect this guy to have at once a perfect man's and a perfect woman's brain and act like a saint and not feel a need to defend himself in the face of all that?!

Ofcourse, I do agree that bad drama should not be dragged on. OP needs to act responsibly and not get pulled into any of that manipulative drama.

Very good advice again.

So this is where it would be like be manipulative back? By clamming up?

Also I personally know if I was advised to say such a sentence in response to drama like that, it would HAVE to be manipulative. There is NO way for it to be actually honest if I have been attacked this severely. I cannot and will not pretend kindness, niceness, submissiveness if I've been attacked. Most guys are the same.

No, I'm not a guy but I appreciate the brand of directness some guys have. Anyone pretending to be kind to me when there is an actual issue, any negative feeling that needs addressing or in the worst form of it, when they actually are secretly nursing a severe, lasting distrust about me is a person I would not want in my life. That's manipulative and anything but direct or honest. Even a direct, straightforward attack is better than that.

This is in the category of him trying to stand on his head to please her. I would not follow this advice if I were OP. This is much too nice behaviour in response to her personal attacks.

She has to be able to recognise her own virtues and good traits first anyways. She seems like she has much work to do first for that. Ironic as she advised OP to do that work on himself instead of recognising this.

Note I get it you mean well by trying to advise him to do more empathetic or validating responses, and maybe this kind of skill could be useful in other situations, I don't know but even if it would be useful elsewhere, I don't think this relationship is where he would have to learn anything more about emotions or empathy.

First he'd have to find some more healthy company for himself, he should not practice any of that with this woman as it would just end up as overly nice behaviour pleasing or appeasing her, rather than fair, reasonable, truly and mutually empathetic benefitting both of them.

But like I already said, I don't think he has an actual severe lack of empathy. I do not think that's the problem in this marriage. Again, based on all the information I've read here.

Well, if she does bad drama like, she can't expect a "perfect" response back. What could she expect, really, him being so empathetic and validating in the face of her quick and major betrayal of him and the relationship and everything that all the relationship stood for?!

So, it can be a perfectly valid and honest attitude and response to only want to stay together for the sake of the baby. (Not that I'd recommend that personally) And then if that's the case, why lie about it? Why hide it?

I'll add this before finishing all this. I think this is too far gone beyond the point where OP should still try and put in any more empathy and understanding to try and get her side. He's tried already. It did not help. Any further effort would just be a waste of time, energy, going to wasteland. He cannot control the relationship between them like that. It's all up to her to understand her own depression if that was really the only problem here, but I doubt it's the only problem really.

My opinion.


Well I don't think I can say anything more. If I came off strong anywhere, it was not with the intent to be argumentative. This is all my honest opinions. To validate OP as well where I believed it would be helpful. Feel free to agree or disagree. I was not responding to your post to argue with you personally Rose76/Open Eyes, but to list out my thoughts on all this. I will not engage in any argument with anyone on here. The questions were rhetorical and I do not expect a response to them. This was my first and last post in this thread as I cannot add more.

The best luck to OP!