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Originally Posted by AliceKate
I have anger issues, though I just about always keep them in. Sometimes a word or even a sentance escapes my mouth but that's it.
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Hey, thanks much for your input, it makes a lot of sense.
I'll comment a little bit on your post. Err this might get a bit long. You don't have to respond to any of it in detail of course. Maybe the first part could be helpful for you too
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I feel very vulnerable in therapy. I mean, I know that if T hurts me, I'll do one of 2 things: a) just stop caring about him and our work alltoghether, turn around and leave and think about it a year or so from then. Or b) distance myself from my feelings and invalidate them until they catch up with me. The former ends up with me being angry at myself, the later being angry at T to a completely dispaportionate degree. The only alternative is to voice my concern and I don't generally feel my voice is reasonable, I feel my position (anger) is never justified and must always be sacrificed towards whatever the other person wants, because their demand must be more reasonable than my anger.
I don't like being vulnerable, but I am now at a point where I either go through the pain, or live in a limbo of anxiety, fear, anger and foresaken hope. Doing it alone just isn't an option for me, as the anger has a destructive potential that goes well beyond destroying my own life.
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That is very interesting to me, that you see it like there are only two choices, pain or anger. It's kinda like that for me too. Not sure why. I also found it interesting how you got as far in therapy (?) as not being able to avoid the pain (?) anymore. Not sure if I interpreted you right there, do let me know if I didn't.
I know with me in therapy, I didn't get to that point if that's what you meant. I could not risk going through anything like that, even if I had been willing to try that (I wasn't willing), it would have been too much of a trauma, and could have taken too much out of my life and I was still not recovered from previous stuff and still had so much stress going on too, and so it was plain not worth it for me to tear myself down like that.
The limbo is familiar because as soon as I entered a limbo like that I had to quit going to the last therapist. It was outright terror, some anger yeah, and a lot of other mess. Not pain, but it could've been pain, extreme stress and long lasting destruction psychologically if I had taken the risk of continuing. I already know how pain itself can be extreme enough to severely interfere with life, so I wasn't willing to expose myself to that. Let alone extra stress on top of the existing stress. Therapy should have helped me lower the stress at least a little but it didn't!.....
The only way to end that limbo was me quitting therapy, I mean a few days later the limbo ended after working through it. I couldn't have worked through it if I had stayed with the therapist as I could not do the risk of exposing the issue to her. By then I'd already learnt that if a relationship is gone that bad for me, then trying to discuss it likely will just make it all worse. Ending things and cutting the person off is the only thing that will bring me relief, sooner or later....
So when you choose that alternative, voicing your concern, is when you have to go through pain? Until you go through discussing it with the therapist and satisfactorily resolve the matter? So it's like the therapist has been able to repair things and reassure you so far and help take you out of that pain?
I noticed you said that it's not an option to do all this alone, so like you go to therapy to keep your anger under control? I had some very bad things happen to me earlier and so because of that I also had to try very hard to keep rage (not just anger) under control. For a while I couldn't even see clearly if it was okay to even have that rage, whether expressed or not. I could no longer see clearly whether I did express that rage too much, so this is a long story, but that wasn't very normal for me but what fixed it was that someone did eventually validate (!) that rage. Yeah, validated rage. A lot of the pressure was off me then and I was able to see more clearly and become grounded again about it. And I could see then that I really didn't ever express the rage to anyone innocent/undeserving of it who would have been damaged by it. That was a relief too. The rage is no longer a problem now. So I'm just telling you all this because maybe it helps, maybe you can find validation like this too. (I wasn't expressing the rage when I got the validation, I was just talking about how I've been having this problem with it. Was not a therapist, lol)
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Regarding your questions:
1) Can I not be emotionally open from a place of strength rather than defenselessly and helplessly vulnerable like that?
No, I don't think so. If being yourself makes you feel defenseless and helpless unless you are some form of your angry self, then how would you be emotionally open without feeling defenseless?
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Hmmmm. Wait. You said vulnerability is being myself? Expressing myself? Did I get that right?
I don't ever fake myself or my presentation, but actively expressing my emotions goes beyond not being fake, to me.
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2) What is even the difference if any, between being emotionally open and being outright vulnerable?
Vulnerability is one emotion. But as I understand for you, that being emotionally open equates to feeling either vulnerable or angry, I think for you, for now, there is no real difference. Vulnerability is a reaction to being emotionally open, so when you are one, you are also the other and thus, it feels like they are synonymous, even though for many people, they are not.
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Ah, so it's an actual emotion, as in, it's a reaction to being emotionally open, to be really honest I've not realised that before/wasn't sure before. Thanks. That clarified a lot. I will be thinking about this more.
Btw - My being angry isn't really being emotionally open because: 1) It does not come from a sensitive place 2) I usually control its expression. I mean getting too impulsive with its expression would bother me for various reasons, of course, so I don't usually allow too much impulsivity with it 3) The anger obviously will obscure the expression of any other emotion that I might otherwise be expressing at the same time.
And because of 1), yeah, it's not vulnerable at all either, for sure.
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3)How much opening up would be seen as actually being vulnerable?
Vulnerability is a feeling you have when you are emotionally open in some form. So if you feel vulnerable exposing 1% of your emotions, that can already be seen as being vulnerable. It's your feeling, and as soon as you feel it, it is so.
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That makes sense. I think yeah, this reaction being individual makes sense. Some emotions I can express almost anywhere, and some I have never been able to express EVER in my life.
I think, I might have felt the actual emotion before, but I would only actually *feel*, *experience* this emotion maybe a couple of times ever in my life. When it was actually my showing emotions, interest, where that would be sensitive (risky) but somehow it was working spontaneously. Trust me this hasn't happened often in my life so far lol. It was always someone else initiating emotional reciprocation for more lasting connection so it wasn't terribly risky, but sure, a bit of a feeling of risk and sometimes thrill with the risk.
I've analysed this more but don't want to bore anyone with it :P so I journalled instead of sharing it here, but your input really helped is what I'm trying to say.
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4) Would I be expected to self-soothe if someone does choose to attack me in some very personal way when I am being vulnerable to them?
Expected by whom? Every person may have different expectations, what is important is that you find someone who's expectations don't negatively impact your progress. A T should help you, right? Whatever that means. Of course though, if you get angry at a T and were to attack them in some way, it would be good to previously know where their line is.
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Well it's like I got a lot of pressure from therapy and similar settings to act based on certain expectations I picked up from these places. It's not good, I know.
Anyway I kind of answered this question since then, it's like, some people will just deliver another personal attack in response, stir up drama, whatnot, influence the emotions of the situation and the relationship that way, have control over the emotional side of the situation and the relationship and so on. It's certainly less of a big risk to be open and vulnerable if one does feel in control of the emotional landscape. It may become a tolerable risk then. And that then may enable one to initiate the emotional reciprocity about risky moves in establishing or deepening connection. That's my current view, anyhow. (Yes if you see irony and cynicism here, you've read me right :P)
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5) So to decide well as to whom to be vulnerable with, I would first need to be really really in tune with all my feelings and soft side?
No. Decisions can follow feelings, same as feelings can follow decisions. You can decide to be vulnerable and ignore your fear to a point, if you want to give that a try.
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I'm not really afraid, I just know that if there is a large chance that it will result in strong pain there's no point in doing this. A little pain, a little distress, a little discomfort, okay. Strong pain, that takes an extreme lot out of my life, no....It's happened before and I don't need that to be repeated. Ever again. It was way too high, the cost I paid. All because I was not afraid or sense the emotional risks or just ignored the risks lol. I just was too impulsive and didn't think at all. (Didn't feel the emotion of vulnerability either lol)
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6) So what does an example of vulnerability based in strength, standing in your truth, warts and all look like?
Let me know when you find out
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Okay I'll let you know lol!