Apologies for the late response, life has been full of events recently and reading responses would have probably brought even less sleep my way. Hopefully this response posts right.
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Originally Posted by unaluna
Number one, get a lawyer. She cannot take your daughter out of state unless you agree.
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I certainly have been searching the internet over this and found it out recently, I'm currently serving in the military and it makes things a little complicated. I start to think being with her mother is the best choice if divorce happens, but then again, why should I simply allow that when this wasn't asked for. Whats best for my daughter will be my priority for that instance.
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Originally Posted by Rive.
It doesn't feel it was a decision coming from a "flip of a switch". From what you write, it has been brewing and festering. It is more an accumulation of things. And she took you at your word when you mentioned divorce.
Good that you take accountability re not being there as much as you could and that you are now trying + you want to make it work.
It seems unfortunate as it seems there is miscommunication, lack of communication, things said in the heat of the moment... and it has snowballed as a result.
Could you ask her to give it one more try to 'save' the marriage, especially with a little one? To both give it your best shot (going for couples' counselling to help with communication issues, not sulking but talking, respect, being there for one another and *hearing* one another). IF she refuses to try, unfortunately, it is her prerogative - again, not knowing what she is feeling/thinking. Though, another argument for her to give it a go is that a couples' counsellor would hear 'her' side (so she would feel heard?) IF she feels unheard in the relationship.
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That is exactly where my thoughts sit. It feels as a flip of a switch but behind the scenes, she's probably been thinking about this choice of hers for a while. Seeing as the communication I put out about trying to mend things, she has no fold to anything that comes out of my mouth. Lately I've been catching her with responses of "me always trying to control things" so I've determined shes made me out to be a narcassist of the sort and is tailoring her responses to that. To a degree i do have controling aspects but not in the sense shes built me up. I've spent weeks with different online tests, being honest with my self and on a scale, i'm pretty low for narcasissm but i don't know at this point. I'm going to be trying again here when a time in the day isn't so hectic... having that conversation about giving it one hoorah for the sake of our commitment that we made to one another, and also giving our daughter a stable home during this time.
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Originally Posted by divine1966
I don’t recommend people get divorced with young children. I recommend you give it another chance. Of course if she agrees to try
Having said that…
I had to read one part of your post two times because I wanted to make sure I understood. You took a month off after the birth of a baby and did a lot of gaming. My daughter is expecting a baby in about a month. I can’t envision my son in law spending his paternity leave doing any kind of gaming, let alone a lot of it. Why not go back to work then. Even if she said no to helping with the baby, you had to spend that month cooking grocery shopping doing laundry cleaning. Not gaming. In addition she had post partum. I can’t imagine what she felt watching you, a new father, wasting precious time off work gaming.
Not saying it’s a grounds for divorce but it sure is a huge red flag. I feel upset even reading about it. I can only imagine how she felt actually being there!
Now I do blame her for not speaking up. She kept her disappointments to herself. She had to address it right there. On the other hand what you see is what you get. No point to try changing people.. She saw what she was getting. It didn’t work for her. And now she wants out
I think couples therapy in order to coparent in a healthy manner is a great idea. Your child deserves to have two involved parents. It doesn’t mean they have to be a couple. Do talk to a lawyer though about her taking a child away. Sometimes judge would allow it but not always
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So the gaming... she deems it as a red flag for sure. I personally keep myself well-rounded and utilize it for self care purposes at times. Granted i don't ignore lifes responsibilities of keeping the house clean, everyone fed.... including our 4 animals. Everything is taken care of, I just could have been more supportive for HER, emotionally and at times physically. I mention this every so often when I see certain things that could have helped her. It's like I'm primed for the coming of the next child as I've learned so much.
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Originally Posted by Rose76
You start off saying you "could have done better as a husband." Then you give examples in which you are always the good guy, and your wife is the unappreciative, impossible-to-please spouse. Your gaming occurred during a "slight phase." You try to sound humble, but you rationalize all your behaviors. You missed some prenatal appointments, but only "due to work." (She has no job, and someone has to earn a living.) If you have portrayed her truthfully, then she sounds like a miserable person to live with. (I'm going by the information you've provided.) I have a bad opinion of your wife, based on what you've told us. At some level, I think your wife is aware of this low opinion you hold of her.
Your post consistently portrays you as the victim . . . until the end where you describe your daughter as being a victim also . . . two victims of this unreasonable woman.
If your wife gasn't gone to a lawyer yet, she's still hoping to save the marriage. A woman who seriously wants a divorce doesn't ask her husband how it's going to be "handled." She addresses that with an attorney. She said that to get a rise out of you . . . to tell you how unhappy she is. She was being provocative.
If everything you do "is never enough," then she must be unreasonable.
You both have the same pattern of communication. That's the problem. Neither one of you expresses yourself without becoming defensive. There's a bunch of passive-aggressive stuff going on here.
Quietly go to a lawyer yourself, without telling her. Have the lawyer advise you on what is the best way to preserve your rights and safeguard your interests. Do NOT offer to move out. Stay in that home, so she can't say you abandoned the marriage. Be less defensive. No man wins a woman's respect by trying to stand on his head to please her. When she wants to start an accusatory back and forth, don't take the bait. Say, "I'm glad you told me how you feel." Then clam up. Think of some good traits she has and let her know you recognize her virtues. Say, "I'ld hate to lose a wonderful woman like you." Don't say, "I've tried my best, but you're never satisfied." Good luck. I hope you preserve the family intact. Never say, "I want us to stay together for the sake of our daughter."
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I appreciate your response. The second half of your response is extremely useful. As for the first half, I can see how the message comes off... this is partially the issue that can come from this kind of forum. I'm super appreciative of the wife that I have, there are certainly aspects from both sides of the story in which we could have done better. I fess up and take responsibility for any action that brought her to making the choice she has made, but looking back (because i literally have to reflect), she as well didn't hold her end of the bargain either which is simply being supportive of the other person. Given the circumstance, I want her and I to move forward. Not me prove to you I'm worthy so I'll progress for us until you feel the need to try as well(even though divorce means she's done). COMMUNICATION is our issue, as you said in the response. After all the reflection, life would be great if we just had better means of communicating to one another and I feel it's possible if she would be willing to try. Otherwise, it's the co-parenting life... which I clearly don't want but will willingly be for if things come to that.
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Originally Posted by Molinit
Get an attorney. You should also know that this isn't a flip of a switch decision - she might just be done. Maybe your best isn't enough for her, who knows. You will need an attorney to work out the custody and financial parts.
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I've reached out for advice from a legal office. I just stated how I felt during the time. It most likely was thought about for some time, however I would have handled things differently in her position. Guess that is why we're all unique.
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes
Postpartum depression is real and can be awful.
Have you gotten therapy to help you better understand it?
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I have just gone through the bits of research from articles and youtube videos at the beginning as it lasted for some time. I supported her in numerous ways but some days my efforts weren't wanted. She's in a better place now from it I believe. In my opinion, she lacks in the self-care department now and any suggestion or help I try and provide she becomes hostile over it but I certainly haven't stopped supporting her.
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Etcetera1 - You're post was just as massive as mine and I truly appreciated her input thorughout all of it. I've given myself one last solid conversation with her to feel out where shes at seeing as it's almost been 2 full months. Determine what her intentions are, and either step forward together or not. It may have been my last straw for her, but I whole-heartedly know that if we both actually put forth the action... better days are there. If not, well then I'll move forward and make better days as well. Thank you again for such a big response!
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Originally Posted by Rose76
There's an old saying that is passed around as advice to husbands: "You can be right . . . or you can be happy."
The O.P. has a choice of what to make as his goal: He can aim at vindicating himself and seeking validation . . . or . . . he can aim at saving his marriage. It's a trade off. You get to pick one. You don't get to pursue both simultaneously. Maybe that's unfair, but that's life. Life is perpetually unfair. We do well to seek out the best outcome we can get. We waste our time and energy, if we seek out an outcome that's just not going to happen.
I take the O.P. at his word - that he'ld really like to save this marriage. (Maybe it's not worth saving. IDK. That's up to him.) I'ld like to see this 2 year old child live in a home with both her mom and dad there with her. I'm in favor of trying to save any marriage where small children are involved, except in cases of one party getting beaten up or repeatedly cheated on. (I said "try," not "stay together no matter what.")
Now I'll say something many will object to: There's probably nothing wrong with being manipulative, if it gets you to where you want to be. That doesn't mean it's okay to act like a sociopath. But, if laying a little sugar on a woman keeps her from running to a divorce lawyer, then go ahead and let the sweet-talkin' flow, if you want the marriage to continue. Ask yourself: "What is my objective, and what will get me to that objective?"
If your objective is to get people to "side with you" or to say, "You're right and she's wrong!" - then keep writing posts like the one starting this thread. Just remember that none of these people is going to warm your bed at night.
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I definitely would like to save this, and I feel it's certainly possible if she gives it the chance. I think it'd be a great success story far in the future, but I can only control my side of it, so I will see what plays out over the next coming weeks and just hope for the best... being positive along the way. Thanks Rose!
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes
It’s not just the post pardon depression. That’s is very real and some women have it worse than others. It’s actually more than that in that a woman begins to see things differently after having a child. There is vulnerability with this and more responsibility and yet also a change in personal freedom as well.
From what you share, she is also a stay home mother and that can isolate her in that she is not engaged in life the same way and is dependent. You on the other hand are involved with interactions and more freedoms than her. I know you think you are tied down and carry financial responsibility, but that is a kind of freedom and power she doesn’t have.
From what you share, her actions are reflecting her attempt to have a sense of power. You see, you have both, a child to adore and distance and freedom separate from that. When you are the main caretaker of a child you are witnessing the very beginnings of self discovery. And at first not only a hormonal change takes place but also a lack of sleep in that a baby demands a lot of attention and a mother sleeps lighter to be aware of her child’s needs. So with that there is a giving up of self. It is a very big change inlifestyle that can bring about some deep insecurities and uncertainties.
It’s a big life adjustment. And it’s different for each of you. Your wife is venting frustration and because you don’t understand it you feel it’s rejection.
What if you heard things differently in when she says you may be happier with someone else it’s not a statement but a question. Your reply of “the next step is divorce” was just as good as saying she is no longer wanted and all that did was fuel a deep fear that even she doesn’t understand.
Your reply should have been more reassuring. Instead you unknowingly fed her fears. A child creates change and new challenges and fears. A couple is required to grow despite this change along with the insecurities that come with it. There is a lot of adjustment when it comes to being a young parent. There are insecurities that arise in each that are completely new and confusing.
This pandemic has added even more stress and fears to an already challenging time in a young couple’s life. Women do go through a lot of hormonal changes when they have a child. It’s a very confusing time in a woman’s life.
The things she is expressing are her fears that even she is confused about. Yes things are different now in that you have moved from being a young couple to learning how to be a family. She is expressing the changes yet she doesn’t really understand how to articulate it. And you are confused about understanding and how to respond. And you sure did throw a hot iron on the fire by uttering the word divorce.
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Honestly this post is perfection. and I don't really have anything to say in response. I appreciate you.
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everyone - Things haven't changed... she treats me like a friend, not a best friend. I haven't had the time to talk to her about my feelings recently. It's just been work and self-care/toddler time. I keep trying to "schedule" free time for us to chat, as we don't really have a sitter for our daughter and trusting friends to watch over her at the moment. I can line up a sitter about 2 weeks out but that's pretty far given the topic of discussion. I'm lining up just talking about things throughout an afternoon while the little one is running around. I'm not very hopeful though seeing as when we talk, she keeps her responses super short and if I ask for more she just states that "it's my answer, take it or leave it." It's almost as if she's made her "choice" and refuses to bend or something. I'm not being super pressing I feel either. This happened 3 months ago, and aside from the night she brought it to me... we have talked twice... both from me initiating, and this third will also be from me. Here's to hoping I guess. Thanks everyone for the responses, positive or negative, feedback is always appreciative.