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Old Aug 20, 2023, 12:31 PM
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jesyka jesyka is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Jun 2020
Location: U.S
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tart Cherry Jam View Post
I called his behavior rational. If he believed the Jesyka was a groupie based on the fact that she alone showed up with the group before the show, possibly signaling to the rock star that she had a crush on him, and, if groupies in general enjoy overt sexual gestures, he might have behaved the way he did, not (only) for laughs, but as being positively inclined towards Jesyka, although not to the point of showing a genuine interest in her. If this is expected in his social circle in this sort of setting, his behavior was rational.

Say, I go to classical music concerts. If it is unheard of for a famous, or not so famous, conductor or pianist to make this gesture to a woman in the audience. Had anyone done it, their career would have been finished right there and then. But no one does. They are not crazy.

Contextually, as has been discussed here, rock concerts are different. Rock concerts are profoundly from distinct classical music concerts, in that respect and what is customary, this sort of gesturing, which on this thread has been described both as raunchy and as crude, might be wildly different. Had I been the object of such gesturing if, for a change, had not only gone to a rock concert but also approached the band before the show being the only woman to approach it, I would have treated it as an anthropologist, concluding, at least with a significant non-zero probability, that I might have encountered a local custom unknown to me before. That in the long past I was twice sexually assaulted does not change how I would have responded. I would not have frozen. But also, assuming I did not actually like the gesturing, I would not have later gone to the group after the show.

Note that this hypothetical is not watertight since I have never had a crush on a celebrity. I have actually never had a crush on anyone: all my (not so many of them) loves were loves, not crushes. I had a close girlfriend who apparently had a crush on Viktor Tsoi - Wikipedia, a musician whose early accidental death only fueled his popularity. I also later in life happened to see the bedrooms of teenage daughters of acquaintances in their houses and the bedrooms were plastered with posters of pop stars (I did not pay attention, male or female or both). But I somehow missed that developmental stage of having a crush on a celebrity musician, if indeed this IS a developmental stage. Regarding adult women having crushes on celebrity musicians, this thread is the first I am encountering it, but then again I am not informed or experienced, so the fact that I have not encountered it does not mean anything. My point is that I have never had such a crush and I would not have signaled to a musician that I had that non-existent crush on him, plus I do not drink much less mix alcohol with benzos (I can only imagine the behaviors that might result from that), so I cannot place myself in Jesyka's shoes.

We do not have groupies on this thread. We do not really know what they enjoy or expect. We do not have real stakeholders voice their opinions. So we do not have the relevant testimony about the local custom. We have not heard it.

Speaking of local custom, I still would like to believe, thinking back to my girlfriend's crush Victor Tsoi, whose music I sort of came to like later but not to the point of listening to it a lot, that he would have never made such a vulgar gesture of thrusting his pelvis towards a woman. I am sure that had he or anyone done it towards my girlfriend, she would have been appalled. But being appalled and falsely accusing an innocent person of the crime of assault are two very different things.

To practical points, I agree that not ever going to concerts alone is an extreme response for Jesyka. It is enough not to drink, not to mix alcohol with benzos, in terms of assuring a positive experience for herself. Also, if Jesyka were to change genres, I personally can guarantee that at classical musical concerts in San Jose there is no vulgar gesturing and I am sure that other posters can contribute their suggestions of music genres where at concerts there is no vulgar gesturing. But she likes what she likes, she likes the kind of music she enjoys, and should continue going to concerts if they are affordable for her, taking the basic precautions. Lastly, probabilistically if she has gone many times and this gesturing occurred only once, what are the chances of it occurring again? To repeat, I do not know how common this raunchy gesturing is. I imagine that this might depend on the content of the lyrics. I have heard that there are many songs with sexually explicit lyrics. That was not at all the case with Victor Tsoi, which is another reason I would like to believe that he would have never made such a vulgar gesture.
As I stated before, I’m NOT a groupie. I saw no difference approaching a band before vs. after a show. Lots of people were outside after the show.

I’m simply a fan. I obviously did not like his rude gestures. I did not appreciate being the butt of his sick & immature joke or whatever it was.

I have been to lots of rock companies & not even Marilyn Mandon himself ever did anything like that to me or anyone else in the audience. He actually just looked at me for a few minutes in a curious way once, lol,
Thanks for this!
Tart Cherry Jam