That makes perfect sense, I guess if you go to a therapist and they know you have no interest in changing what is the point of challenging the patient? It is probably a universally accepted truth that you have to want to change and grow for it to be possible and that want has to come from within, not an external source otherwise it doesn't work.


For my H, I think that the disinterest is both of the things you mention. First, he is clearly depressed and has an overall lack of affect/emotion when those things are appropriate. He is simply not engaged and I do think much of that is a symptom of depression. Second, I think he is getting something out of this stance he has where he refuses to do anything or make any decisions. I don't know if it makes him feel powerful or my guess is that since he views any change as an opportunity for a "mistake" or as "dangerous" (i.e. non-parent approved change would cause something bad to happen to him or his parents) that is keeping him from doing anything as well. And, the more entrenched he gets the harder it is for him to change. He is somewhat better than he was during the summer but his behavior is far from normal and he is really not interested in too much beyond video gaming or running his business to some extent. This is why, I think, for him it is so much easier to think about leaving everything and everyone behind and starting over even though he will admit that solves nothing, is a quick fix, and he will end up back where he started.


I can see what you mean re: isolated stage. I think they tend to get wrapped so much in their own stuff it is hard to keep up with anything else at all. My H has also distanced himself from his friends who he would normally be talking to a lot. My take from the advice you've given, my therapist has given, and I've read in general is just to go about my life. So, the interesting thing is (apart from the double date we have tomorrow) is that tonight we have a party with parents from one of my kids' schools. Our babysitter bailed so I told him I would just go with another mom who is single. He didn't like that and expressed that he wants to go too, which is definitely a change because all of last spring he shirked all those activities at all costs. So I do think your overall advice of doing what I want and then letting him figure it out works well. Or put another way, when I want him to come or it is his idea to stay home, that's fine but if I want him to stay home that's when things change.


I do feel like birthdays are always walking on eggshells even in the best of times. I have a good group of friends and we always do birthday plans for each other so with that and whatever I want with the kids I don't really care what he does and I certainly wouldn't hang my birthday hat on any plans (or lack thereof) made by him. I just find it ironic that he's asking me about birthday plans when he doesn't want to be married to me. I know it is not that simple but it makes me want to laugh and cry. It sounds like you do have the birthday thing down to a science and I will plan on following your example next week for sure. I am someone who doesn't put a lot of stock in my own birthday celebrations - to me I care a lot more how people treat me every day then if they recognize my birthday or not.


I have also sort of been having fun with my therapists advice of "playing detective". So my H likes to make many passive aggressive digs at my family. My parents are on a long trip and he made some dig about them being on a trip and instead of having any reaction I did play detective and asked him why my parents' trip was important to him and it turns out he is mad I didn't get any money from my grandmother when she passed away recently, it all went to her children (including my mother). So I do find it interesting how "playing detective" can really reveal the reasoning behind these statements.


I will report back after our double date tomorrow. I can't remember the last time we went out with one other couple, we have done many group parties and some one-on-one things but it has been ages since we've had a dinner like this so the dynamics will be interesting to see.