"But like I said, not everyone copes the same way and by definition depression and ptsd can make normal daily tasks very hard. And yes, kids are kids, they are not adults, and no, you shouldn't expect of kids what you expect of adults."

Kids can't be expected to cope like adults. But we raise kids to become complete adults.

I don't want this to sound like I'm coming at you @seesaw. I'm not. I'm voicing how I see this. I don't want it to feel like an attack on you.

Allowing kids to become immersed in anxiety, depression, and struggling with the fatigue of trauma isn't going to help them. That isn't invalidating what they are experiencing.

Letting them self medicate with a lack of self care, a lack of awareness of how we are all connected in our home, community, and world isn't going to get them where they need to be.

Thoughts follow actions follow thoughts follow actions etc. Something has to interrupt the pattern,otherwise you end up with a young adult who is so self absorbed that they can't function.

And becoming super self absorbed in your own pain has some narcissistic components to it. Saying, "We're all hurting in some way and we need to look after each other," is better.

I tell my kids, not everything we feel is valid. We have to examine our feelings and try to put some of them aside if they're misplaced.

Not everything I feel is valid! Gawd knows I've felt some things and relied on this forum to help me confront these things.

Seeking a positive mindset matters, and having the ability to still contribute despite not having a positive mindset matters too.

Real self esteem comes from real self examination, and from accomplishing something you can be proud off. The kids set goals since my wife left. One completed first aid/first responder training, one completed driver training, and one set an agreed on target for school absenteeism and to pass all classes. That kid was really struggling. I agreed to two floater days a month, plus legitimate illness for absenteeism, and they're doing it. Having the autonomy to plan for days off helped, and their marks improved hugely.

Having tangible visible improvements to yourself and surroundings can help with resilience. If all your clothes are dirty and you smell like sweat, that doesn't get you anywhere positive. Self care and attending to your appearance and immediate surroundings matters when fighting against depression.

I also think it's OK for kids to see their parents are human, and to treat their parents as human. My youngest said they're super exhausted from depression and find it extremely hard to do chores. "I know. Me too. So.... Now what do we do? Can we work together on your chores, because this isn't ok. You can't expect me to do everything. I'm hurting too. So, I'll help you with yours if you come help with supper."

@seesaw, I'm sorry. I think I sounded too forceful originally. I don't want you to think I'm jumping all over you, and I'm sorry for the tone the first time. I appreciate your insight and your support and I don't want to lose you.

RDM