bmoz, I don't attend self help groups for some of the reasons that are in your post and for religious reasons. However, I think some things in the programs are helpful to me and they facilitate me staying in recovery. I read some of the literature. Like everything in the world there is a little good and a little bad in everything. I think self help groups do help some people stay clean and sober and for them, it works. I am happy they are getting what they need and I fully respect their decision. Matter of fact, there are many in the programs who help me stay sober. We all have to discover our own path--I am glad you found one that is working for you. I hope everybody can find the right one for them.