Thread: Self Hatred
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struggling931
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Member Since Jan 2004
Posts: 55
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Default Jul 03, 2008 at 11:11 PM
 
Well I think I know where you're coming from…unfortunately.

(In my case it was attending a highly "politically correct" college that seemed to do a number on me.)

Here's my take on it, in no particular order and not trying too hard to make any particular sense:

1) women communicate differently than men
2) women seem to think that criticism is a sign of love
3) men don't
4) feminists can be as full of s**t as male chauvinists (also very intellectually misguided)
5) many men fell into the trap of thinking that if they "agree" with feminists they'll increase their chances of getting play from them, or women in general
6) women's way of respecting another is different from men's way
7) men's way of respecting others often gets interpreted as weakness and low status by many women
8) the central contradiction to feminism, and thus its most crazymaking aspect, is that women want to be "heard" by men…this is only partially true.

Women *do* want to be heard, but if you listen *too much*, they don't respect you. Not very fair, but in my experience, reality.

So where does this leave you (us)? It sounds like you've overinternalized the messages about not using women, objectifying them, etc. *A lot* of this, not all of it, but a lot of it is bunk. Women objectify men ("an ATM machine with a %#@&#!"), use men to make themselves feel more attractive, make other women jealous (*never* underestimate this motivation btw), and so on. Plus, a lot of women like being checked out, they just don't admit it because they don't want to sound like a slut. Also women do want and enjoy sex as much as men, just often not in the exact same way (after the first date, first thing in the morning, etc.) But again, they generally don't say this because they're afraid of sounding cheap. If a women feels like you're exploliting her by having intercourse with her in the context of a mature relationship, then unless you're into some sicko head games or seriously kinky stuff, *she's* the one with the issues…but of course part of being brainwashed by feminists is automatically assuming that it's *you*, not them--and even if it is them, of course it's really you because society as a whole is patriarchal, so either way you're to blame.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this from here. I would just say: women want men too. Your needs and desires are not bad or wrong, it's only problematic if the way you act on them is grossly inappropriate (or illegal). Ignore with every brain cell in your skull men-hating feminists. They are deeply unhappy, which may not be their own fault, but the way they express that unhappiness is itself destructive. Women want a real man who is not a jerk, it just feels like such a fine line for a lot of us a lot of the time. The thing about "objectifying" women can be particularly toxic IMO. It doesn't matter if you objectify them in and of itself, it only matters if it affects how you treat them.

Basically you need to listen to your own voice more, and not so much to women's.
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