oh I wasn't disagreeing, I was thinking out aloud and trying to arrange things in my own mind. Was I abused? Oh for sure, am I a victim? Oh no not now I'm an adult, a surivor yes, but abuse is abuse full stop no matter how its wrapped up. As children we were victims, not as adults. Infact I love the courage I see in myself now, infact I quite respect myself for trying to change my life, thats what i respect in others also. I was just stunned for a short while today, it came out of the blue as T isn't one to keep someone a victim, she always points out another way to think about things, so thats why I think it took me by surprise today, but I'm ok with it now LOL