I forgot to mention when I posted the link that these verses don't exist in reality! The first quote "Phillip ---" doesn't exist! The second quotation is wrong, also. It is NOT written that way and what IS written doesn't mean what the quote says. That's why these are called "sacred cows" or "phantom verses".

The SAYING that "God helps those who help themselves" is simply A SAYING. It depends on how one interprets the saying as to whether it holds water or not.

I believe that one can pray for God's help but get in His way of answering the prayer. We want it the way we want it and we won't see how He's really answering that prayer.

I also believe that a man, as in Rap's example, can sit on a hill and pray for a bountiful harvest and never lift a finger to till the ground or plant the seeds in order to get that bountiful harvest. They expect the plants to sprout from the ground on their own, to maintain themselves with never lifting a finger to weed or water and still expect that bountiful harvest. It simply won't happen.

I hope I've made myself clear now.