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ECHOES said:

Pinksoil, thank you so much for this! Not only for expanding on the concept of manipulation and for defending lovely people for whom the term Borderline PD applies, but I think you just helped me understand more about my current bout with depression. I've been trying to get to the bottom of it. I kept coming back to something I want from T that I can't have. I have asked and been told "No" and that's where I always leave it. I'm not as smart as MissCharlotte to know how to ask again in another way. My way is to drop it, never mention it again, suffer and feel like I deserve to suffer because of the shame I feel about having asked for something not possible. I think I am mourning a lot, including not knowing how to talk about what I want more. I can't have it but I can talk about it.

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omg echoes, you just clarified this for me as well... i have been struggling with needs and not knowing how to get them met now that i feel like i'm getting flack from even my beloved md. I was starting to put the walls all back up again and the former part that was in control for years came back out - dealing with this change by drinking again. If I didn't have alters, I would be in the BPD boat and have many such tendancies from living with two BPD parents. I don't want to be like them, but I want to get my needs met... and so since I couldn't do either, I went back to poor coping skills so that i could numb the sense of my "Being manipulative". This has helped so much.