so far he, isolated guy, has been immune to everything that we've told him or suggested that he do to help himself. i think he even has a pattern..developed so that he can receive more attention. i seriously doubt that he read what you so thoughtfully posted. that would mean that he'd have to interact, as an adult, and actually receive the wonderful help that you've offered. I'm officially off his case and will use the "ignore" feature from now on. and i do appreciate what you've done. pat ps. i've already said it..but some people just love that misery and hold it closely to their chest and GUARD it from all "intruders".....i think we have us one here,boys, as Tom Petty would say.......