[cookfan56]

Hi, I am almost 3 years sober with a checkered history of getting some sobriety (less than 2 years) and then relapsing. However, over the last six years I have been sober over 98% of the time (brief relapse in 2007, brief relapse in 2009.) Anyway, having attended (and led) meetings in several different states, I'm more aware than the average person of how different AA meetings are in different places. Now on to my current situation. I attend a club where there are noon meetings, night meetings, Saturday meetings, etc. They are literally always *begging* for people to chair noon meetings.

So, I chair sometimes. Last week, during the meeting my own sponsor of two years (who has always been supportive before, in her own way) very loudly interrupted me during my lead by hitting her watch and yelling "12:23, 12:23!! You went 3 minutes over your lead!" Well, she knows I have severe social anxiety and how hard it is for me to lead meetings. I was mortified. I turned bright red for at least 5 minutes. ( I need to add that my sponsor *never* chairs meetings herself. Oh, the irony.)

You see, in this meeting you need to not only stick with an hour, but you need to split up the hour strictly by: lead goes until exactly 12:20, then chairperson has to "call on people" for exactly 20 minutes, then exactly 15 minutes of open share until closing. Yes, really. @@

Anyway, I am pissed as hell at my own sponsor. She offered a sickeningly sweet "southern lady" apology at the end but it was insincere. I now have four more meetings to chair this month and am resentful as hell.

Has anyone had similar experiences?

[Leed]

Personally, I think this whole "exactly" business STINKS. How can a meeting be EXACTLY on time, when people want to speak. Are you going to tell them to SHUT UP, basically like SHE did?? This is terrible, and it is UNLIKE ANY other meeting I have EVER been in, and I've been in many many meetings in my 19 years of sobriety.

Your group needs to have a group conscience to change these activities, and see if the group wants to keep it the same or change it. The group CAN change this, if by VOTE the majority wants change. If they all want to keep it the same, then so be it. But have a group conscience -- it's allowed by the Rules of AA. Every meeting I've been to has gone overtime, so allow EVERYONE to speak as long as they need to. It never goes TOO far overtime because we DO point out the time when we get close to closing. But everyone gets to talk when they need.

This sponsor of yours was TOTALLY OUT OF LINE. She should NOT have spoken out of turn. And this "time" thing has got to go! God bless and I hope things get changed around. God bless & please take care. Hugs, Lee

[roads]

I understand the sanctity of keeping an eye on the clock at the noon AA meetings, because these came about primarily for working people who only have an hour lunch. I've been to some of these nooners (chiefly in the big cities) where timers rule, audibly ticking away, & no one objects.

The group conscience decides the particular style of each group. Your group needs to make some clear, open decisions about how rigid the time element will be followed in your group--if they haven't already done this.

As for your sponsor ... Sponsors aren't perfect, and some will occasionally make wrong calls for those they sponsor. others are perfect idiots and have no business ever becoming sponsors. Only you know whether this is just an isolated case ... something you can work out with her ... or whether you need to look for a better-grounded sponsor.

I'm so sorry you had this experience. I'm glad you realize it's a local thing and hope you will open your next meeting by asking for a group conscience over the time issue. This will clarify it for you, and I have no doubt the group will respect you for dealing openly with the problem.

Roadie

[tokiwartooth]

I'd outright tell her what I felt about that. My meetings aren't nearly as strict as that, although I only attend evening meetings. If someone goes over, no one cares as long as it's not too much over. Being exactly on time like that seems a little an@l retentive. I mean, for noon meetings when you have an hour lunch timing is good, but getting so worked up about going three minutes over is a little ridiculous. Although I went to a meeting once where they didn't believe in giving out chips. I had gone that night to get my one month chip and they basically said, why should you be rewarded and recognized with a chip for being sober? It's your duty to be sober, you shouldn't be commended for it. So I never went back to that meeting. No wonder there were only 5 of us there. I like the evening meeting I go to at the church, there's always quite a number of people and no one cares if you go over, and they give out chips.

[cookfan56]

Originally Posted by Leed

Personally, I think this whole "exactly" business STINKS. How can a meeting be EXACTLY on time, when people want to speak. Are you going to tell them to SHUT UP, basically like SHE did?? This is terrible, and it is UNLIKE ANY other meeting I have EVER been in, and I've been in many many meetings in my 19 years of sobriety.

Your group needs to have a group conscience to change these activities, and see if the group wants to keep it the same or change it. The group CAN change this, if by VOTE the majority wants change. If they all want to keep it the same, then so be it. But have a group conscience -- it's allowed by the Rules of AA. Every meeting I've been to has gone overtime, so allow EVERYONE to speak as long as they need to. It never goes TOO far overtime because we DO point out the time when we get close to closing. But everyone gets to talk when they need.

This sponsor of yours was TOTALLY OUT OF LINE. She should NOT have spoken out of turn. And this "time" thing has got to go! God bless and I hope things get changed around. God bless & please take care. Hugs, Lee

Thanks Lee. Yes, this group is really rigid. And, as far as group conscience goes, we have a "steering committee" which you need to "run for office for." The "steering committee" meets once a month, and then group consciences are done or not done based on them. So basically what I'm saying is that there is never any change at this club, ever. The club just celebrated its 11th anniversary. The "core members" are mostly still there, they want it this way, I see new people come and go all the time. But then, in AA in general that happens. But these people are, IMO, insanely ****-retentive. The one place in the world that should be a "soft place to fall" is AA (especially for the majority of us who don't have a family who provided us with that.) So to go there, volunteer to chair a meeting, then be criticized for not keeping to a schedule really sends a message to others of: WHY THE HELL BOTHER.

Oh, another thing: this group regularly throws out drug addicts who will not call themselves alcoholics. If they will only say they are addicts and not alcoholics, there are men there dedicated to walking them out to the parking lot. In the middle of the meeting. And yes, I've personally witnessed it three times. Where do you think those three guys went immediately after being thrown out? Well, we don't know but anyone could guess. At my old meetings in other places, we accepted anyone. Drug addicts, alcoholics, even once a food addict who couldn't find another meeting. One alanon gal who was more comfortable there than at Alanon. Those were my old meetings, in other places. Where I live now, that is all considered travesty.

BTW I saw my sponsor today at the same meeting when I had to chair. I was scared to death of keeping to the clock. But I did. I gave her my best big old fake smile and that was it. I am actively shopping for a new sponsor as we speak.

[cookfan56]

Originally Posted by Roadie

I understand the sanctity of keeping an eye on the clock at the noon AA meetings, because these came about primarily for working people who only have an hour lunch. I've been to some of these nooners (chiefly in the big cities) where timers rule, audibly ticking away, & no one objects.

The group conscience decides the particular style of each group. Your group needs to make some clear, open decisions about how rigid the time element will be followed in your group--if they haven't already done this.

As for your sponsor ... Sponsors aren't perfect, and some will occasionally make wrong calls for those they sponsor. others are perfect idiots and have no business ever becoming sponsors. Only you know whether this is just an isolated case ... something you can work out with her ... or whether you need to look for a better-grounded sponsor.

I'm so sorry you had this experience. I'm glad you realize it's a local thing and hope you will open your next meeting by asking for a group conscience over the time issue. This will clarify it for you, and I have no doubt the group will respect you for dealing openly with the problem.

Roadie

Thanks Roadie. As I said, group consciences at this club are very rare. Maybe once every two years. You can't just ask for one. If it were up to me, I would start a new meeting. But I haven't lived here long enough or know enough to even know how to start.

[cookfan56]

Originally Posted by tokiwartooth

I'd outright tell her what I felt about that. My meetings aren't nearly as strict as that, although I only attend evening meetings. If someone goes over, no one cares as long as it's not too much over. Being exactly on time like that seems a little an@l retentive. I mean, for noon meetings when you have an hour lunch timing is good, but getting so worked up about going three minutes over is a little ridiculous. Although I went to a meeting once where they didn't believe in giving out chips. I had gone that night to get my one month chip and they basically said, why should you be rewarded and recognized with a chip for being sober? It's your duty to be sober, you shouldn't be commended for it. So I never went back to that meeting. No wonder there were only 5 of us there. I like the evening meeting I go to at the church, there's always quite a number of people and no one cares if you go over, and they give out chips.

Wow, not giving out chips because you shouldn't be commended for it??? Sounds like my family of origin, LOL. Don't commend anyone for anything, because you should always do the right thing naturally, of course. Sad but true. AA should be rewarding, it should be positive, it shouldn't be exclusionary, it shouldn't be a club where only certain people can join. These are all directly against the principles of AA. But then, I have lived elsewhere where AA was really AA. The club I currently go to is what I consider a bastardization of AA. So, along with looking for a new sponsor I am looking for a new home group.

[gma45]

Wow! Sounds like this group needs to be doing some step work! I always have to repeat to myself principals before personalities when I come across people like this. I don't think I could belong to such a ridged group. I commend you for hanging in there, don't know if I would have been able to.

[Leed]

This "club" should be run out of town! Any club who will NOT allow addicts or whoever that needs help needs some education on the Principles of AA. Granted, AA is for Alcoholics, but for a long time we have allowed addicts also to attend our meetings WITHOUT having to say they are alcoholics!!!

And NOt give someone a chip for a month of sobriety?? That's about the BEST time to give a member a chip!! That's when they're the most vulnerable, and they NEED recognition!! They NEED a pat on the back, and Kudos!!!

And not having a group conscience except every 2 or 3 years? Boy, that's really great. And having the same old fogies on the committees year after year? No wonder the group is such a mess!! THEY are the ones who should be escorted out to the parking lot!! They just dry-drunks!!!

Cookfan, I hope you find a new group, and a new sponsor. This group will NOT serve you well, believe me. Best of luck, and God bless. Hugs, Lee

[madisgram]

BTW I saw my sponsor today at the same meeting when I had to chair. I was scared to death of keeping to the clock. But I did. I gave her my best big old fake smile and that was it. I am actively shopping for a new sponsor as we speak.

sounds like a wise idea, cook fan. there are only greys not absolutes. if she has enough sobriety time she could have discussed this with you after the meeting. i wish you well on your search for a new sponsor. if you do find another more suitable for you best to thank your old sponsor for the time she spent with you as you go your own ways, imho.
another thought-fan out and go to other meetings where you live. you may find a group you're more comfortable with. just a thought.