[thickntired]

My friend from AA had a really hard time getting sober. She picked up a ton of 24 hr chips. So, she goes to a very exclusive rehab. After 4 to 5 months she gets out; the price tag was roughly $40k. Then she does out patient at home, hits a mtg everyday, calls her sponsor etc. She is doing great and picks up a 9mo chip. I got a call a couple weeks ago at 1am. It's my friend and she's hammered. I wanted to cry; the next morning i call her, and she was in a blackout when she called. She's picked up vodka and started smoking cigarettes after all those months off the two. She also stands to lose custody of her kid. I met her 2 days later and she's sitting in front of a mtg smoking. I talked to her and she didn't want to go into the mtg or pick up a 24 hour chip. She told me the vodka was gone. She put it in her coffee that morning. Now she's gone back to the rehab for a couple weeks. I hate this disease/choice whatever you want to call alcoholism. Often I struggle with how some get sober and some spend $40-60k on rehab and relapse.

Tnt

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[Altered Moment]

It is a nasty disease. The only thing I have ever been able to figure is that they don't really have a deep honest desire to quit drinking. You have to have that honest desire to stop first.

[emgreen]

What zinco said...I'd add too, however, that drinking can be a financially costly proposition. The court system is really harsh these days...People lose jobs...Lose families...Lose their minds...& so on. I, personally prefer to put my $2 in the basket at AA meetings rather than going to "sober spas," but it takes what it takes. I'm not sure what the success rate of folks who go to rehab is versus those who simply go to AA, but as zinco wrote, you've got to want it to get it.

[thickntired]

Yes I see both of your points. She is actually on disability leave from a high paying job she doesn't want to return to bc of the stress. I guess I should be able to relate being an addict, but I've also been in and out of rehab, therapy and AA for 20 yrs. I have read all kinds of guesstamites on the recovery/relapse rate with AA. Most of the experts have written it off as dated material, but then again ppl relapse on all programs AA being the most prominent.

Thanks for the replies


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[emgreen]

Originally Posted by thickntired

I have read all kinds of guesstamites on the recovery/relapse rate with AA. Most of the experts have written it off as dated material, but then again ppl relapse on all programs AA being the most prominent.

Yep...I think it's anybody's guess. I think relapses are fairly common...& I don't know how that skews figures. I also think some folks get sober, stop attending meetings & manage to stay sober. What I know about relapse is one time I had 12 years of sobriety...Stopped going to meetings for a few years & went back out. Fortunately I made it back to AA & am staying sober one day at a time. After staying sober for 12 years & going back out I no longer count my sober time, collect sobriety coins, etc. I try to stay sober just for today.

[Altered Moment]

I went to a drug and alcohol rehab (alcohol spa). It was very nice. Costs $7000. It worked for me but then i went to three meetings a day after I got out. I wanted sobriety bad at that point. I was also on disability for a year (whole other story) after I got out so I could go to three meetings a day. I had nothing else to do.

I have heard the success rate of treatment centers is only 2%. The treatment center I was in told us that. I don't think there is anyway to know the success rate of AA. They don't keep statistics. Maybe the courts do but that is not a fair statistic as they are being forced to go. A nudge from the judge as it were.

[Altered Moment]

Yep...I think it's anybody's guess. I think relapses are fairly common...& I don't know how that skews figures. I also think some folks get sober, stop attending meetings & manage to stay sober. What I know about relapse is one time I had 12 years of sobriety...Stopped going to meetings for a few years & went back out. Fortunately I made it back to AA & am staying sober one day at a time. After staying sober for 12 years & going back out I no longer count my sober time, collect sobriety coins, etc. I try to stay sober just for today.

I hear you on the one day at a time thing. I don't think you lost all you learned and the foundation you built in those twelve years though. I am very torn. At 17 years sober and battling horrible depression I decided to try pot for my depression. I was legitimately trying it for depression. It didn't really work so I quit after a short time. Now most people in AA would say that is a relapse and I should give up my time. Then there are those in AA who use medical MJ and don't think anything of it. I still say I have 18 years but I am torn about if I am being honest about it. Like you say I don't really care about time anymore, I am just glad I am sober today.

What do you think Emergreen?

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

What do you think Emergreen?

I see you're from Michigan, too. As you know, we have medical marijuana. I was just reading the Free Press today & they said medical marijuana was just approved for folks with PTSD, so I guess there are some legitimate medicinal uses for weed.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2014303180095

As for your sobriety, my feeling is that alcohol is a far more destructive drug than marijuana. While I don't, & haven't smoked in years, I don't think it's anybody's business if you smoked, or not. I know I'd become addicted to the "demon weed" if I started smoking again because I have an addictive personality. Plus, I got paranoid & excessively lazy when I smoked. These undesirable side effects were nothing compared to the blackouts & other disastrous things that happened when I was drinking.

I'm no "Big Book thumper" & don't especially care for folks who take others' inventory. As far as I'm concerned, keeping your sobriety for 18 years (with depression hovering) is a major accomplishment. Again...I don't talk "time of sobriety"...It's one day at a time. In short, it's none of my, or anyone else's business how you count your sober time. We recovering alcoholics are quite simply miracles.

[splitimage]

I first got sober in 2005, well really what I did was get dried out. Work sent me to this fancy private hospital. In reality I was too sick for them, and needed long term treatment, but I didn't go through any kind of assessment process that up here alcoholics go through to find the rehab that's the best fit for them.

Didn't stay sober very on and lost that job.

Since then I'e been through rehab, outpaitient at a public hospital 7 times before finally stopped relapsing and got some continuous sober time. Right now I'm just over 2 years sober.

It's been a brutal period of sobriety, awful relapses, detoxes, and rehabs. But I can honestly say I've been sober more than I've been drunk since Jan. 2007, which I'm proud of.

I struggled a lot with AA at first, then found Women for Sobriety which made a big difference for me. Their philosophy resonated with me more. Now I use my own combination of AA, WFS, and double recovery meetings as well as online support to help me stay sober.

But right now I'm not focussed on time, beyond today.

splitimage

[laikashuman]

I have a friend who has gone to rehab at least twice that I know of. Did amazing there and was sober for awhile. But then things at home started to go awry and she started drinking very often. She had to go home to her parents for awhile so she could get away from her issues and get somewhere that had a lot of structure.

I grew up with an alcoholic father, so I'm very familiar disease, unfortunately my father never had the desire to quit until I had moved out for college, so I didn't get to experience his recovery, so it's new to me.

I hate this disease as well and it just seems so easy to fall back into it. We have to remember to have patience, love, understanding, and most of all, do not judge. We have to remember also that they are ADDICTS in every sense of the word, and that addiction is, of course, an illness that isn't easily treatable.

We have to be there for them, as they are there for us through our mental/emotional issues.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by emgreen

I see you're from Michigan, too. As you know, we have medical marijuana. I was just reading the Free Press today & they said medical marijuana was just approved for folks with PTSD, so I guess there are some legitimate medicinal uses for weed.

As for your sobriety, my feeling is that alcohol is a far more destructive drug than marijuana. While I don't, & haven't smoked in years, I don't think it's anybody's business if you smoked, or not. I know I'd become addicted to the "demon weed" if I started smoking again because I have an addictive personality. Plus, I got paranoid & excessively lazy when I smoked. These undesirable side effects were nothing compared to the blackouts & other disastrous things that happened when I was drinking.

I'm no "Big Book thumper" & don't especially care for folks who take others' inventory. As far as I'm concerned, keeping your sobriety for 18 years (with depression hovering) is a major accomplishment. Again...I don't talk "time of sobriety"...It's one day at a time. In short, it's none of my, or anyone else's business how you count your sober time. We recovering alcoholics are quite simply miracles.

I was in CA at the time. There is a doctor on every street corner in CA that will prescribe it for whatever ailment you say you have. Kind of a farce really. Not sure how it is in Michigan. I do believe there are legitimate uses for it and it seems to really help some people with anxiety and other things. I to have an addictive personality and I could see where my experimental use for depression was going to lead right back to being a pot head like I was in the past. And could have led to full blown relapse. It didn't help with depression so I quit without any trouble. It is controversial and we will see what the studies have to say about it for medicinal use.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by splitimage

I first got sober in 2005, well really what I did was get dried out. Work sent me to this fancy private hospital. In reality I was too sick for them, and needed long term treatment, but I didn't go through any kind of assessment process that up here alcoholics go through to find the rehab that's the best fit for them.

Didn't stay sober very on and lost that job.

Since then I'e been through rehab, outpaitient at a public hospital 7 times before finally stopped relapsing and got some continuous sober time. Right now I'm just over 2 years sober.

It's been a brutal period of sobriety, awful relapses, detoxes, and rehabs. But I can honestly say I've been sober more than I've been drunk since Jan. 2007, which I'm proud of.

I struggled a lot with AA at first, then found Women for Sobriety which made a big difference for me. Their philosophy resonated with me more. Now I use my own combination of AA, WFS, and double recovery meetings as well as online support to help me stay sober.

But right now I'm not focussed on time, beyond today.

splitimage

Good for you spit image. Keep up the good work. There are many in AA who think it is the only way to get and stay sober. I am not one who thinks this is true. 12 step programs do have the best results I believe but that does not mean it is the only way. We did a family intervention with my Dad many years ago and it worked. He has been sober about 25 years. Now many including people in my family and people in AA would say he is a dry drunk. He has never been to one AA meeting. I don't think it is true. I have seen growth in him. He has his issues but don't we all. My mom and dad have stayed togethor and have a good relationship are far as I can see and I see more of it than any of the other family.

I used to go to a dual diagnosis group and it was my favorite group ever.

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by emgreen

Yep...I think it's anybody's guess. I think relapses are fairly common...& I don't know how that skews figures. I also think some folks get sober, stop attending meetings & manage to stay sober. What I know about relapse is one time I had 12 years of sobriety...Stopped going to meetings for a few years & went back out. Fortunately I made it back to AA & am staying sober one day at a time. After staying sober for 12 years & going back out I no longer count my sober time, collect sobriety coins, etc. I try to stay sober just for today.

Wow! 12 years is awesome, and I know it took a lot of guts to return to AA. I do agree that just bc a person quit AA one should never assume they are not sober. That's a pet peeve I have and the term white knuckle is annoying. My friend that relapsed works in the mental health field. She said that drinking vodka doesn't take away her 9 mo of sobriety and chips are nothing but behavioral modification. I thought that was kind of funny.

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[thickntired]

Pot was my main vice!! It was harder to quit pot than cigarettes and alcohol combined. I was completely lethargic - smoking out of a bong from 9am till I fell asleep that night. It almost ruined my marriage and yes it absolutely helped with my Mental illnesses. The only caveat was I had to stay high to bury those demons. Now that I've gone a year off pot & booze therapy really suxs lol. I've gone inpatient twice since I got sober. So, I can't ever be around pot, but I vote for legalization just hoping ppl with addictive personalities don't smoke. I was in the hospital last week for ptsd, major stress and high blood pressure from anxiety. I told the hospital director in my assessment that my life was soooo much easier when I was high. The only problem is the word moderation is not in my vocabulary. Pot is better than pills and supporting big pharma. On picking up chips - I have used narcotics, benzos, muscle relaxers and adderall in excess. I went to AA for pot not pills, and I came clean with my pdoc re the access to pills from my med Dr. Because I wasn't honest he is no longer prescribing adderall. My sponsor knows what happened and hell will freeze over before I pick up a 24hr chip over pills. Rational Recover and The Small Book doesn't agree with counting sobriety days. I know that bc of the chip system if I relapsed I'd think well might as well go on a binge bc I lost all my sobriety. It's kind of like being on a diet then binging for days bc you messed up with one cookie.

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