advertisement
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Moose72
Silver Swan
 
Moose72's Avatar
Moose72 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 16,413 (SuperPoster!)
15 yr Member
2,511 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Trig Sep 14, 2020 at 11:18 AM
  #1
This is the thread where I am going to talk about "it". Yes that thing that nobody likes to talk about: Physical and mental abuse by our alcoholic parents. I have memories in bits and pieces and it worries me that they are just the tip of the iceberg - that I can't remember most of the abuse that happened.
Possible trigger:


To this day, these things still flash back and I can hardly believe that they happened, and I know that if there are only these few memories that there had to have been more- hidden memories. I always thought my childhood was idyllic until I was about 27. Then I tried to see someone that specialized in ACOA matters, but we didn't get very far. And I was early pregnant with my 2nd child.

Bottom line is, I have never had anyone try to get me to remember these things more concretely. I'm sure they're buried for a good reason. But I often wonder just how bad my childhood and teenage years actually were. I have such good memories in there too- we went on vacations to Disney World twice, and to see my grandparents in Canada at least 3 times in the house they built, but more if you count their apartment and big house before that- and that the problem- they are hidden too. The good memories are hidden with the bad. Day-to-day, the drunkenness , the being abandoned,- but hey we could cook our own dinner, right? And my dad said he'd cook us macaroni because we liked it! I know we did, but not THAT much. Other good memories include going to England for 3 weeks with those same grandparents and they paid for most everything. My dad seemed totally okay during those times! I wonder how far back his drinking really went! I have no idea and it would crush my childhood memories (early and middle childhood) to think that my dad was drinking back then, too- drinking through the times I saw as good (like the two Disney World trips, for example).. But lurking in the background was my dad's abuse as a child which fueled his drinking, I'm sure. And he's still an alcoholic and still troubled and still dealing with his childhood trauma from his family. I hope to god that I did not pass anything on to MY kids. They are all grown now.

How do I reconcile the good memories with the bad? Which person is my dad- the good guy who was such a loving father when I was young- or the bad guy who abused us and who still drinks and sometimes STOPS drinking cold turkey even now at age 73 and almost DIES from it?
Possible trigger:
I never know which father I will get when I call him- the chipper happy dad who will rehash old memories with me (the good ones of course) or the drunk dad whose speech is unintelligible. And I may never see him again because he lives in another state and can't travel anymore because of his health. I can't really afford to go see him, either. And now with covid, its even MORE difficult. For the longest time I preferred to just relive all the good memories and forget the bad, but the bad has a place. Something to work through instead of brush under the rug.

__________________
Wellbutrin XL 300 mg
Caplyta 42 mg
Ingrezza 80 mg
Ativan .5 mg 2x/day
Propranolol 20 mg 2x/day

Mania (December 2023)
Mixed episode/Hypomania (September 2023)
Depression, Anxiety and Intrusive thoughts (September 2021)
Depression & Psychosis (July/August 2021)
Mania (April/May 2019)

Last edited by Moose72; Sep 14, 2020 at 11:59 AM..
Moose72 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes, RoxanneToto, Yaowen

advertisement
Moose72
Silver Swan
 
Moose72's Avatar
Moose72 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 16,413 (SuperPoster!)
15 yr Member
2,511 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 03:58 PM
  #2
Can anybody relate? Has this happened to you?

BUMP

__________________
Wellbutrin XL 300 mg
Caplyta 42 mg
Ingrezza 80 mg
Ativan .5 mg 2x/day
Propranolol 20 mg 2x/day

Mania (December 2023)
Mixed episode/Hypomania (September 2023)
Depression, Anxiety and Intrusive thoughts (September 2021)
Depression & Psychosis (July/August 2021)
Mania (April/May 2019)
Moose72 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 05:05 PM
  #3
The challenging thing about alcoholism/abuse is the anger can come out when very drunk or it can come out when sober and in withdrawl. For example if someone binges on the weekends, by Monday and Tuesday they can be very moody and even easy to anger.

I remember my parents arguing about alcohol and drinking too much. My father kept insisting he did not have a problem and would try to prove it by obstaining for a time. Problem was that entire time he was grouchy. So basically it's sort of a dry drunk behavior.

Children don't understand what alcoholism means, and some think it's "just something adults do".

There are tons of excuses alcohol addicts/ abusers have to deni they have a problem. It's a form of gaslighting others and self. Because they are IN THE DISEASE they don't see how their behaviors affect others. Hence, they LACK SELF AWARENESS. There are many narcissistic behavior patterns in the disease of alcoholism. "I will drink less" isn't controlling this disease either, it's just another method of DENIAL. Plenty of alcoholics don't do crazy things when drunk, I have heard that time and again from alcoholics in denial how they can control their behavior. There is no "well the problem will go away once I" either. I have heard that so many times over in my life and in learning about this disease. Like I mentioned, there are seemingly endless excuses and reasons. It IS for all intense purposes CHEATING, a love affair with the disease and saying it isn't happening and gaslighting. It is cheating your loved ones and even friends and often even work collegues etc. It's a self absorbing world and instead of working through emotions, having them run rampid within and seeing everything externally all while running from the interal growth that needs to take place.

My husband has invested years in learning how to live his life sober and helping others to do the same.

A friend told me years ago when she was divorcing her alcoholic husband, "if there are discussions or arguements about alcohol at all there IS a problem". Her ex-husband died quite young of alcoholism.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 08, 2021 at 06:16 PM..
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
RoxanneToto
 
Thanks for this!
RoxanneToto
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 05:33 PM
  #4
My older brother tends to bring it up a lot and share memories of things he saw that deeply disturbed him. It's amazing how just two years older can mean seeing more and remembering more. My older brother has a lot of anger and I have learned when he shares to listen because he clearly needs to talk about it and continues to struggle with what it meant to him personally.

I have a hard time sorting through my own feelings. I can experience a lot of cognitive dissonance with it tbh. It's hard to love someone with this disease and separate the challenge of the disease itself and the emotional abuse suffered from it when the individual was active in the disease. I try to respect the disease as I have seen how challenging it is to break away and change, yet at the same time I can be angry due to how this challenge HURT ME. It's a very selfish disease and often the individual engaging doesn't realize how their behavior is actually "abuse" be it deep emotional abuse suffered by others who love them or have to somehow deal with it and all the gaslighting and denials.

There is a difference between "empathy" and being high and feeling ones feelings and partying with someone else doing the same. That's not a true friendship either, it's just hanging out with someone else that has a problem too and endulges.

I found this quote a little while ago and texted it to my husband.

The quote says:

F.E.A.R has two meanings.

"Forget Everything and RUN"

OR,

"Face Everything and Rise"

The choice is yours

My husband replied, "You just saw that expression today?".

After thinking about it more, I am now sure my husband has not only heard this in the rooms in his recovery, but has said it many times when he was trying to help someone FACE they have a disease instead of running to the alcohol and denial. Face it and Rise is what these individuals work on in their sobriety and support others as they do the same.

I remember when my friend took me to an Alanon meeting when I was struggling with my husband's bouts of drinking and blacking out etc., What I saw most DEFINITELY frightened me, and the truth is I CRIED. After that I made a decision to Face the reality and say something. I told him he had a problem and that I could not live like this anymore and I was serious. That same night he went to an AA meeting and discovered that YES he did suffer from this disease. It's been 28 years now and countless meetings and he has not drank any alcohol or done any drugs.

We had to change things too, which meant changing hangouts and friends and understanding the genuine lifestyle change that had to take place.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 08, 2021 at 06:05 PM..
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
RoxanneToto
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 06:24 PM
  #5
The thing about denial, is that it's a form of SELF enabling. Also, wanting others to help you practice this "self enabling" is essential. Also, there is a step that can be hard, and that's in making amends and actually SAYING YOU ARE SORRY to the ones you gaslighted and were mean to while engaging this disease and your self enabling and denials that cost others. Finally being accountable is an important step in recovery. And admitting YOUR part in relationship failures and choices. He/she did NOT make you do it, IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.

When someone practices what could be years of denial in this disease, they can form a habit of "practicing story changing and blaming others". Don't expect the TRUTH about what really happened during a blackout. That is also something that becomes a habit of making up a story and it's not unusual to experience their anger about that too. (been there experienced that) Unfortunately, blaming you for THEIR mood or problem or whatever they are not pleased with also becomes part of the denial habit learned behavior that takes time to STOP practicing while working on living life sober with a program to help you finally see your problem, and I mean ALL OF IT.

Someone says, I will JUST stop drinking on my own. Bad idea because that's often what leads to dry drunk behaviors. These are all the nasty habits one learned while active that they NEED to fix and work on. Nope, they don't just go away, sometimes they get worse. Often what is desired is the reward and title or compensation, not so much the work, much like the disease.

Over the years I have grown to respect the commitment of recovery. I can see it takes time and how important it is to follow a structured program which helps one learn how to grow up and be accountable. Yet, I have no interest in engaging with an active drinker, I already learned I can't get through and I end up just being on call for their drama and delusional thinking caused by this disease. Agruing with a drunk is just like arguing with a narcissist, it typically ends poorly and only their version counts, that is if they even remember.

Anything sound familiar? Maybe you were not conscious of it, but felt it all?

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 08, 2021 at 08:07 PM..
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Moose72
Silver Swan
 
Moose72's Avatar
Moose72 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 16,413 (SuperPoster!)
15 yr Member
2,511 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 07:20 PM
  #6
I remember the day my dad was driving us to or from a museum when we were in our early 20s I think. He apologized for all the bad stuff he'd done to us. And we said no to worry about. Now I'd like to yell at him for those things and all the stuff he's done since- almost dying several times. But I don't want there to be bad blood between us. He's 72 and Id hate to have him dir after a bad conversation. I guess I should think about this differently.

__________________
Wellbutrin XL 300 mg
Caplyta 42 mg
Ingrezza 80 mg
Ativan .5 mg 2x/day
Propranolol 20 mg 2x/day

Mania (December 2023)
Mixed episode/Hypomania (September 2023)
Depression, Anxiety and Intrusive thoughts (September 2021)
Depression & Psychosis (July/August 2021)
Mania (April/May 2019)
Moose72 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 07:51 PM
  #7
@Moose72
He may be past the point of appologizing the way you wish he would, past the point of accountablity. But that doesn't mean you don't deserve it.
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 08:36 PM
  #8
Years ago I watched a documentary about alcoholism and how this man got to the point where he had to drink every day or he would get very sick. And how he tried to stop and almost died the withdrawl was so bad. One would think that would be enough to keep him from drinking again and when you get to a certain level, that's exactly where you go when you drink again. People think "I will be able to drink very little since I have been off a while", that is simply not what happens, instead the person experiences the stage they were in and the nightmare starts all over again. It showed how this man HAD to drink just to stop the shakes of withdrawl.

It was hard to watch how bad this disease can get.
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Moose72
Silver Swan
 
Moose72's Avatar
Moose72 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 16,413 (SuperPoster!)
15 yr Member
2,511 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 08, 2021 at 09:01 PM
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Years ago I watched a documentary about alcoholism and how this man got to the point where he had to drink every day or he would get very sick. And how he tried to stop and almost died the withdrawl was so bad. One would think that would be enough to keep him from drinking again and when you get to a certain level, that's exactly where you go when you drink again. People think "I will be able to drink very little since I have been off a while", that is simply not what happens, instead the person experiences the stage they were in and the nightmare starts all over again. It showed how this man HAD to drink just to stop the shakes of withdrawl.

It was hard to watch how bad this disease can get.
This is exactly my dad. Maybe 15 years ago, he and his two brothers planned a "brothers weekend". My dad stopped drinking cold turkey for this trip. One of the days they were together, my dad went through a horrible withdrawal- my one uncle found my dad on the floor passed out in his own vomit. He left him there to die! And he is a police officer. My other uncle finally came home to this and immediately called for help. He was hospitalized. There was another similar time when my sister went to see him and ended up in the hospital. He had no idea what was going on. He thought my cousin was there and was "talking to her". I luckily have never seem him this way in person although I did have some coffee with him when his hands were shaking really bad and he was trying to eat these cheese sticks that were way too hot.

__________________
Wellbutrin XL 300 mg
Caplyta 42 mg
Ingrezza 80 mg
Ativan .5 mg 2x/day
Propranolol 20 mg 2x/day

Mania (December 2023)
Mixed episode/Hypomania (September 2023)
Depression, Anxiety and Intrusive thoughts (September 2021)
Depression & Psychosis (July/August 2021)
Mania (April/May 2019)
Moose72 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 09, 2021 at 08:30 AM
  #10
During consumption there is a level of inebriation where the alcoholic feels emboldened and they begin saying/talking about things that are very inappropriate for the situation or group of people they are interacting with. Like things said about themselves or personal challenges that are not talked about while working for example or with clients. It's down right embarrassing and for a friend/spouse/child is a matter of trying to figure out how to distance when experiencing this inappropiate behavior. There is this understanding where you know you can't challenge them otherwise it makes the situation even MORE challenging and embarrassing. It's an awful feeling where you KNOW your feelings are not going to be considered and if you DO speak up you pay a terrible price for it. You are NOT ALLOWED to spoil their BUZZ where they are so emboldened and they HAVE TO say things even when it's so inappropriate and self centered.

I did a job last summer and ALL the adults were drinking and were in that "nice mood" stage. The children were all afraid to take a turn and engage and I worked very hard at trying to get them more comfortable. And I had one child that would and the others took so much time and I was there a long time, all the while these adults were consuming and as they did they got more an more emboldened and unaware and in my space too. That's when I REALLY have to pay attention because that's when stupid things happen that can put me at risk. Oh they kept wanting me to drink with them and I had to keep repeating that I never drink while working EVER. They were not paying attention and got sloppy and let the dog out and that dog made a B line for me which makes it very dangerous and now they are so drunk I am left alone with it all the while KNOWING I have to be careful about how I react because WE DO NOT WANT to ruin that BUZZ where they all get angry at me. I was glad I managed to get through that experience and I know those people have NO IDEA what it was like for me to deal with them.

Oh, it's that mentality where you KNOW that if you ruin their BUZZ and set a boundary they WILL go on a rage rant that isn't controlled BECAUSE OF THE ALCOHOL. When you are young and are around an alcoholic you end up learning things NO normal child has to learn. And when you don't really know what it is so you can't say anything, you begin to think this is what adults do and DON'T interupt it.

I had a friend that was an alcoholic, drank everyday but concealed it so I did not notice right away. She was one that expected even those at work to deal with her problems and accept her excuses for her state of mind where she was there but distracted. A lot of times it was about her marriage and unhappiness, yet part of her problem is how her husband had distanced because of her drinking and well, sometimes she stunk too and was sloppy and wanted that drunk sloppy sex from him. Well, I had long day of work and crashed in exhaustion and it was midnight and I got a call and it was my friend needing me to "rescue" her because she had her horse and pony in her horse trailer and the police would not let her drive. Well, I thought about the animals and so I got out of bed and in my truck and drove to where she was. It was awful because the police were angry and when I got there they actually were RUDE to me as though what they were dealing with was MY FAULT AND REPSONIBLITY. My friend reeked of alcohol and she was having the wrong attitude with the police. I had to pull her aside and try to get her to LISTEN even though she was not all there due to the alcohol, I had to play the nice guy role to get her to not challenge the police so she would not get arrested. Then I had to get her truck unhooked and hook my truck up to her trailer so I could drive her to where she kept her horses and then home. It's was a drive and I was tired already and I was SO ANGRY because those two animals in that trailer had been worked all day and they had no water and she was in no condition to be driving them and putting them at risk. Her reply was "oh they will be ok, they are used to it", ugh how awful.

I was so angry and every time she talked she smelled and filled my truck with that alcohol smell which is something they don't even know they emit. She had been driving without being registered and she was not supposed to be driving either so that's why they took away her vehicle. And I kept thinking how it was costing me a tank of gas and some important sleep and my feelings were not important. I did scold her on the way home, I did not care if she got angry either. That's when I decided I was DONE trying to help her or feel sorry for her. And she never even called me to apologize either or pay for my fuel cost. I tried to help her, she would not stop and died of alcoholism and she was only 50 with three children and her children all developed addiction problems one son died in a car accident. Yes, "passing things down" is what happened.

I understand that it's hard to finally stop and commit to recovery and it's a lot of work that can take years. I do respect the commitment to live one's life sober. But I am NOT going to have an alcoholic in my life. They DO NOT respect me, it's always all about them and they do not care about you be it you parents dying or being in the hospital or facing important challenges of your own, no, they are very self absorbed and constantly involved with their disease and need YOU to be on call and go along with it and even enable it. And they don't even see how their level of alcohol in their system affects their behavior and what it means to others around them. It is a very narcissistic disease and it really hurts others who try to care about them only to get hurt and discarded.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 09, 2021 at 09:52 AM..
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
RoxanneToto
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 09, 2021 at 10:00 AM
  #11
I vented and the truth is when I do that I always feel like somehow there will be anger and I am going to be punished because someone will be offended.
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Moose72
Silver Swan
 
Moose72's Avatar
Moose72 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 16,413 (SuperPoster!)
15 yr Member
2,511 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 09, 2021 at 02:22 PM
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
I vented and the truth is when I do that I always feel like somehow there will be anger and I am going to be punished because someone will be offended.
Yes! This!

__________________
Wellbutrin XL 300 mg
Caplyta 42 mg
Ingrezza 80 mg
Ativan .5 mg 2x/day
Propranolol 20 mg 2x/day

Mania (December 2023)
Mixed episode/Hypomania (September 2023)
Depression, Anxiety and Intrusive thoughts (September 2021)
Depression & Psychosis (July/August 2021)
Mania (April/May 2019)
Moose72 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes
 
Thanks for this!
Open Eyes, RoxanneToto
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jan 09, 2021 at 03:14 PM
  #13
That is exactly why I make sure that when my brother talks about it that I make sure I acknowledge HIS feelings and hurts that he shares.

My older sister used to drink a lot, always alcohol and wine around in her house. I have had some serious challenges with my sister and my husband kept saying "she is either a closet drunk or a dry drunk".

I am sorry @Moose72, truth is unless someone stops and goes through a program and therapy, they don't even realize how their behaviors hurt their friends, spouses and loved ones. If they are actively engaged in the disease, FORGET trying to say anything.

Covid has led to some going out after years of sobriety, and my husband has gotten a few phone calls where different ones died because of it.
Open Eyes is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.