[B-randon]

I am the mother of a 16 year old girl who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome two years ago. In many ways hyperlexia (a division of Aspergers', for those who are unaware) read like a description of her exactly.

However, in my research and experience there is one thing in particular that unnerves me.

Aspies seem to be often represented as sweet but socially clueless individuals who have strong morals, even if they are bit off-color. I have raised my daughter in a devoutly Catholic home, and aside from some divorce and brief instability in her childhood, she has been taught strong faith and morals. However, she seems to be missing something, a conscience? Something human. For one thing, she lies frequently and cheats and steals without remorse or limit. Her dishonesty is frightening and does not discriminate when it comes to even close friends and family. It seems she's doing this a little bit less as she gets older, but I suspect she's just getting better at not getting caught. She's seemingly incapable of leaving the house and actually going where she says she'll be. She shoplifts ridiculously and is never caught; over the past three years I'm certain she's stolen over a thousand dollars worth of cosmetics, books, food, clothing and other trinkets. She lies to such an extent that sometimes I've read her journal and found made-up stories in there -- it's as if she lies to herself.

A significant problem is with boys and men. My daughter has little to no social life because of her social awkwardness and also because of a lack of interest, but she is extremely pretty, tall and thin and a sharp dresser and goes through boyfriends, many much too old for her, with alarming frequency. She doesn't seem to care or have any interest in them aside from things that they can provide her with, such as money (she targets rich older men); and they always get over their initial infatuation and scram fast when they realize how "weird" she is.

Though she doesn't have much of an interest in the opposite sex, there is one serious problem. It occurred first when she was 13, and she developed what we thought was her first "crush", and we were honestly a bit relieved. However, she didn't go to school with the boy who lived in our neighborhood and didn't know how to approach him appropriately. Without my knowledge, she invented this insane story about being part of a secret government organization and took it so far with threats and craziness over the span of several months that the boy's parents ended up calling the police on her. At 16, the awful "crush" struck again, and she developed an obsession with this gorgeous Puerto Rican kid from her new high school. Through manipulation and sneakiness she was able to secure him as her boyfriend, but I was disconcerted by the way she referred to him in her journal as "the Object" and "it" and not a human being. This kid was a happy, healthy, normal popular kid and dumped her after about a month, as usual. My daughter could not accept this and started calling/texting him dozens of times a day. She spread vicious rumors about him and slapped him in the face in public. She went to his employer and claimed he had sexually harassed her, getting him fired; discreetly ruined his car; planted hallucinogens in his car before anonymously tipping off his college (we're not sure yet whether he'll be expelled and facing charges); poisoned and killed his new litter of shih tzu puppies; stole and destroyed his iPod and phone (that's a lot of damages on top of ruining his car!!); and finally broke into his house one night after purchasing a tarantula and giant scorpion for $15 each from the local pet store and released them on his pillow with a note reading "Hell Hath No Fury Like the Woman Scorned." In an e-mail to a very unhealthy friend, she made it clear that she had planned in detail many ways in which she could murder him and was confident she could get away with it, but wouldn't do so so as not to jeopardize her future.

Last year we sent her to boarding school with excellent security and she managed to run away. True to form, she was found two days later at the public library immersed in stacks of books. We think her time there was beneficial but I'm still worried since she's still doing these crazy things.

My daughter is extremely intelligent. She taught herself to read at three without my knowledge; I bought her a learn-to-read book to get a headstart on kindergarten, and when I went to teach her the alphabet she astounded us by clearly reading aloud all the words in the book. I send her to retreats and religious events, and I've had deeply intelligent adults tell me they've never met someone who could dig so theologically deep and profound, especially not at her age. She devours books of all types.

Extreme beauty and extreme brains, but there are so many dark sides. Despite her power to be intensely collected and calculating, there are times when I can't even speak to her because she explodes in temper tantrums and literally sounds like a 2-year-old, and you literally have to talk to her like she is one. She cries hysterically and pounds her head against the wall over the smallest things; completely irrational. She's obsessed with looking perfect and has that distinctly Aspergian(?) fixation with lists and schedules and rules; she can spend entire days studying complicated recipes for what type of clothing looks best with her body type and colors with skin tone and subconscious messages and such, she follows extreme beauty regimens that are planned with detail down to the minute they must be performed and precisely how many squirts of what should be used, etc. She's obsessed with the "perfect" body measurements and is never without her measuring tape to ensure that her waist doesn't expand past the specifications and the hourglass is maintained. God help you if something goes out of balance -- it's the end of the world. She has so many rules about what she has to do at what times, every day is intensely structured to the point that if we leave 10 minutes later than expected she pouts like a baby and acts ridiculous.

She has caused me so much stress that it is nearly unbelievable, on top of two older siblings with their own slew of issues. I'm worried also because she'll be eighteen soon and has proved to have very poor judgement. I'm afraid to know what she'll do with the independence she wants so badly.

This is all very stressful for me. Does this sound like ASPD? Admittedly, I know little about it. I just know that I'm not sure Asperger's, while certainly present, covers all her neuroses.

Originally Posted by B-randon

I am the mother of a 16 year old girl ... Does this sound like ASPD?

Nope. In order for a patient to be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, said subject has to be 18 or older... among a number of other things.

While her behaviour does appear to be indicative of a future diagnosis of ASPD if something isn't done to prevent it, that doesn't necessarily mean she lacks conscience (nor does the presence or absence of conscience affect one's species). But they do have tests to measure such things. I recommend a counsellor, who will in turn recommend a therapist.

[Oxidopamine]

Unlike other personality disorders, the diagnosis for ASPD requires the person be at least 18 years old as well as diagnosed with conduct disorder. What you described may be conduct disorder. Her intelligence may or may not be from a possible conduct disorder but as already mentioned, her hyperlexia may fully account for it. I'm not saying your daughter has conduct disorder or another mental illness such as oppositional defiant disorder, they are simply possibilities. I'm sorry for the stress you're going through with your children, hopefully her behaviours do change in a more positive way.

Please forgive me, as this is all speculation:

Due to her intelligence & her hyperlexia, perhaps she overcompensated cognitively with what she lacked in social functioning &-- instead of responding well to the positive upbringing you gave her-- instead sought out to test its boundaries & how far she could question it/act against it before she was given serious consequences for her behaviour... And by not seeing any that severely set her back, as she was capable of escaping a high-security boarding school, she's felt free to roam as much as she could through the depths of free will, limited only by herself. And I'm sure that she has very many conscious rationalizations for each of her behaviours & paths of thinking, however, she's not going to view someone's concern that something is wrong with her as anything more than someone who doesn't understand her & will further add fire to her superiority.

My advice is strict adherence to a therapist. A family therapist would be a good idea, as you & the rest of your family will be able to quell any lies she attempts to tell, as well as have an outlet to cope when life gets difficult for you as a result of her behaviour. And about this Puerto Rican boy? Possessiveness only goes so far before it borders on delusion & psychotic behaviour, which are not infact qualities of ASPD & go much further into mood/delusional disorders.

Hope I was able to help & I apologize if my train of thought was a little messy.

[xenabaiche]

A psychiatrist suggested conduct disorder in me when I was about 9. My mother didn't like that, and I seen another psychiatrist at age 11, and I was diagnosed with Asperger's. I'm 20 now, and I do not believe I have Asperger's. I believe that the conduct disorder suggestion may have been correct, and that I now have antisocial personality disorder. I do have a few symptoms of Asperger's, but I relate way more to being a Sociopath. What I'm saying is, its likely that she may have been misdiagnosed. But as others have said, you need to be at least 18 to get diagnosed. I would recommend seeing a psychologist.

[phoenix7]

Originally Posted by Michael the Great

While her behaviour does appear to be indicative of a future diagnosis of ASPD if something isn't done to prevent it,

can ASPD be prevented?

that doesn't necessarily mean she lacks conscience (nor does the presence or absence of conscience affect one's species).

not sure what you mean by this......wouldnt the lack of a conscience affect interactions and safety of other some cases and thereby affect the species? or am i on the wrong track?

But they do have tests to measure such things. I recommend a counsellor, who will in turn recommend a therapist.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Good idea

Can ASPD be prevented?

Most definitely, especially if it's caught early on. It isn't easy, however, what with the scarcity of therapists who are willing to treat people with ASPD.

not sure what you mean by this......wouldnt the lack of a conscience affect interactions and safety of other some cases and thereby affect the species? or am i on the wrong track?

I meant that presence or lack of conscience doesn't affect whether one is a human or another species of animal.

[phoenix7]

thanks - i guess there is some lack of balance there in that ASPD cannot be diagnosed until 18 - yet early intervention can cure it ....

and yes definatly still human conscience or not -

can you teach someone to feel who doesnt?

you can teach them appropriate responses to actions and words, how do you explain something wrong to someone who has no idea of right and wrong ? you can explain the consequences - the societal rules - does it then become a "judgment call?"

Originally Posted by phoenix7

thanks - i guess there is some lack of balance there in that ASPD cannot be diagnosed until 18 - yet early intervention can cure it

Well, there is Conduct Disorder... It's basically the same thing, just for kids.

can you teach someone to feel who doesnt?

Someone who has learned to suppress those feelings? Yes. A psychopath? Nope. Our neuropathology forbids it. However, psychopaths can experience some emotions. One could teach them to pay closer attention to the emotions they do experience.

you can teach them appropriate responses to actions and words, how do you explain something wrong to someone who has no idea of right and wrong ? you can explain the consequences - the societal rules - does it then become a "judgment call?"

Wrong is relative.

[Oxidopamine]

Originally Posted by phoenix7

thanks - i guess there is some lack of balance there in that ASPD cannot be diagnosed until 18 - yet early intervention can cure it ....

As mentioned, there is conduct disorder but there are a few similar ones as well, such as oppositional defiant disorder and intermittent explosive disorder, although they capture only parts of ASPD and conduct disorder.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

and yes definatly still human conscience or not

It's often said that psychopaths lack a conscience, although that is when I question those people as to their definitions of conscience.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

can you teach someone to feel who doesnt?

It's like telling someone who cannot taste nor smell how lasagna tastes. They can say, "yummy in my tummy" and indicate it tastes and smells delicious but that's as far as it goes. In other words, you can teach them to display emotions and feelings superficially but not to embrace them. Most psychopaths can feel some emotion but for those who cannot, you'd probably just help them with feigning emotions. Since most psychopaths do feel some emotion, it's akin to a person with 20/80 vision receiving glasses that improves their vision to 20/55. There is some improvement and some amount you can teach them but ultimately there will always be reduced emotions and feelings.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

you can teach them appropriate responses to actions and words, how do you explain something wrong to someone who has no idea of right and wrong ?

The problem with teaching right and wrong is that those terms are subjective, bound by one's culture and the area in which they live. As a real example, North American parents are taught that "correct" parenting involves giving a newborn its own room to sleep in while the parents try to get some sleep elsewhere. Parents in African areas often claim this to be, "wrong" parenting because they believe the parents and child should sleep in much closer proximity, often in the same bed, without crushing the child of course.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

you can explain the consequences - the societal rules - does it then become a "judgment call?"

Legal consequences can be explained because they're objective. Societal rules can also be explained but they apply only to that particular area and culture, so in a way it is a judgment call. Even very basic rules, such as no killing only applies to certain cultures and areas. I suppose they would act like a tourist if they enter areas in which they do not know the societal rules, so they may get some leniency.