[insideoutsider]

Everyone,

Hopefully Google recognizes the words I've used in the title here.

Hoping to find like minds, as psychforums shut down the ASPD subforum and there seems to be no support for those struggling with empathy aside from autistic support which i can not fully relate to. And reddit, nah I'm good - it's largely a pissing contest unfortunately, with some exceptions.

Welcome. Take a seat.

[CANDC]

@insideoutsider hi there. I do not identify with some of the terms you title your thread, but antisocial is one I have done for long periods of time.

The problem with labels is they leave a lot to the imagination of the reader. If you care to share, I am interested to know more about your experience like what your lifestyle is like what your days are like. To me that would be easier to respond to. To be quite honest, when I see the word psychopath I think of an Alfred Hitchcock movie and I do not think that is a fair representation of you.

Thanks for sharing.
CANDC

[If you want me to see your reply to this post please include @CANDC in your message - not in requoting my message]

[insideoutsider]

Thanks for the reply.

I have changed the title to be more welcoming. Initially I was using buzz words so Google can find this.

I will be sharing my experience in due time, just saying hi and welcome for now.

[Thomas73]

Hello Insideroutsider,
I'm one of them.
Life is hard, but I'm not giving up just yet.
I'm 50 years old. White. Male.

Scored 38 on the Hare test.
I'm a psychopath.
Using this site as a bit of side therapy.
Doing my bit for the community and myself.
God knows we need it...so....Happy to share anything you like, so ask away.

Thomas73

[insideoutsider]

Amazing - I appreciate the transparency - welcome here my friend.

I'm in my 30s, male as well. I have no such diagnosis, however the doctors in forensics assigned me a counselor to help me navigate the mental health system and help guide me down a prosocial life style after a manic episode gone wrong.

I have been stable for years since, and really what I find most problematic is my impulsivity, and I'll be honest - it often takes a lot of mental work for me to perspective take.

I do not fully understand nor agree with many of the constructs of society, however I see that they are in place for reasons and do my best to uphold the values I've been raised with without compromising my internal experience.

[Thomas73]

Hello Insideouttsider,
Glad you're doing ok.

I find the social side of life challenging to say the least. Been quite some years since I entertained having friends. Always feel like a field mouse, camouflaged in an open field full of cats and hawks.

Mostly I've relied on partners for my social. That hasn't worked out well I'm afraid.

I find your take on the constructs of society intriguing as I'm very much in the same boat. I have a lot of ideas as to why. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just...different.

Do you suffer from a lack of empathy? I find without it I'm always viewing things exclusively from my perspective. Sounds crazy to me but apparently people think of others in their calculations and viewpoints.
I don't really have any values that don't stem from my viewpoint. I suppose I've embraced what I am.

Better than what I was, which was undiagnosed ASPD. At least now I have added perspective. Helps with introspection.

Happy to share anything that you might, or be a sounding board. Might help to get it from someone that's lived with this for years with such an advanced capacity, as I have.
Only thing I haven't done on the Hare list is get busted for criminal activity, so at least I got that bit right.
I think that stems from my behavioral code. I know I am neither moral, nor ethical. I make decisions based upon power, risk and inclination. Tangling with the law, although it did happen when I was younger, always presented to me as a risk not worth taking.
Wouldn't enjoy spending my time behind bars, so I've tried to dodge that bullet.

Anyway, let me know. Happy to talk.

[insideoutsider]

In response to empathy, yes It's now clear to me that others don't spend nearly as much time thinking about how to be helpful/supportive/understanding. For most people I know, it's almost automatic. I do not relate to the feeling of automatically knowing when someone wants to join in conversation, automatically feeling something when I see someone else experiencing something, or in some cases automatically know when I'm being off-putting.

That last part is what I mean about impulsivity still being an issue. I too try to stick on the straight and narrow. But sometimes I find myself in a mindset where I'm thinking that the emotional gratification of dealing with something that is in my way would best be handled immediately and rashly. That said, I can go for very long periods of time repressing that urge to act out. It's just, uncomfortable to a certain extent, and sort of stacks up and compounds if not dealt with.

[Thomas73]

I know what you mean. I've tried to piece together some reasoning as to why that's there.
My best guess is it's a result of extreme anxiety brought on due to the condition.
As a result any bait, lure or problem requires an almost instant answer.

I tend go for what is in front of me, even if I know it's not the best option.
I just say yes a lot I guess.
There's a lot to it, living in this world of one.
Take attachments for example.
I'd say they border on, or just plain are, obsessive.l
Making a connection with someone when I feel eternally alone, even in company is priceless.
Really hard to let that go.
Just lost my second relationship - and she knew who and what I was through and through.
Pretty gutted atm to be honest.
Luckily I'm not a stalker. I do my crazy mostly in my head and in relationships and expressions.
I'll just miss her forever is all.
Fills me with anxiety,,..but there's naught for it, I'm afraid.
Still miss my ex wife as well - and we didn't even get along. Love dies a hard death with me.
Happy to keep going. You suggest the next point to discuss?
Thomas73

[insideoutsider]

Thank you for sharing. I too feel like having people who understand you is important. It makes me feel more inclined to do the right thing. Strangely, getting in touch with the "dark side" without feeling judged makes me feel more inclined to harness it for good. On the other hand, if I feel like I am being singled out or demonized, I may feel inclined to be just that. I find that negative reinforcement doesn't do me well (but then again positive reinforcement doesn't do much either - I mostly am self motivated). It makes me shut down, or possibly angers me, and usually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Because I try hard to do the right thing. And when my efforts are minimized, I think "what's the point" and might stop trying.

Which leads me to think about others, who do have the natural ability to empathize - to them I say, harness it. Do not sacrifice this skill for anything. I see too often naturally empathetic people who suppress it. I don't like playing that game. Fighting fire with fire is never a good idea. And more importantly, empathy is a great skill that shouldn't be taken for granted.

[insideoutsider]

@CANDC - are you there? I didn't mean to ice you out I just had nothing in particular to say at the moment

[CANDC]

@insideoutsider I am reading your responses. I wondered what you wanted to change the title to and I can change it for you if you still wish to change it as you mentioned from "Folder icon ASPD - Antisocial - Sociopath - Psychopath"

I have been alone much in life and probably depended like Thomas on relationships for socializing. That did not work because romance and socializing are like two different animals.

I find that by volunteering I am developing more empathy for others but sometimes I think of what I would do in their situation but that does not always work.

I think having a purpose in life can help whether that is expressing a talent or pursuing self improvement or a mindful path.

Thanks for including me in the chat.

CANDC

[If you want me to see your reply to this post please include @CANDC in your message - not in requoting my message]

[insideoutsider]

I like that

And yeah I'm starting to realize putting myself in another's shoes is different than doing my best to understand their perspective.

"ASPD - Antisocial personality disorder - support" pls

[Thomas73]

Originally Posted by insideoutsider

Thank you for sharing. I too feel like having people who understand you is important. It makes me feel more inclined to do the right thing. Strangely, getting in touch with the "dark side" without feeling judged makes me feel more inclined to harness it for good. On the other hand, if I feel like I am being singled out or demonized, I may feel inclined to be just that. I find that negative reinforcement doesn't do me well (but then again positive reinforcement doesn't do much either - I mostly am self motivated). It makes me shut down, or possibly angers me, and usually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Because I try hard to do the right thing. And when my efforts are minimized, I think "what's the point" and might stop trying.

Which leads me to think about others, who do have the natural ability to empathize - to them I say, harness it. Do not sacrifice this skill for anything. I see too often naturally empathetic people who suppress it. I don't like playing that game. Fighting fire with fire is never a good idea. And more importantly, empathy is a great skill that shouldn't be taken for granted.

Hey insideouter,
I don't believe empathy is a skill at all, but rather a generic capability. It originates in the part of the brain called the anterior insular cortex. People with ASPD tend to have undeveloped or poorly developed anterior insular cortex', so they literally cannot feel empathy...and there's no cure - it can't be developed.

[Thomas73]

Originally Posted by CANDC

@insideoutsider I am reading your responses. I wondered what you wanted to change the title to and I can change it for you if you still wish to change it as you mentioned from "Folder icon ASPD - Antisocial - Sociopath - Psychopath"

I have been alone much in life and probably depended like Thomas on relationships for socializing. That did not work because romance and socializing are like two different animals.

I find that by volunteering I am developing more empathy for others but sometimes I think of what I would do in their situation but that does not always work.

I think having a purpose in life can help whether that is expressing a talent or pursuing self improvement or a mindful path.

Thanks for including me in the chat.

CANDC

[If you want me to see your reply to this post please include @CANDC in your message - not in requoting my message]

Hey CANDC,
I'll tell you what I do in those situations - squirm like a mouse under the gaze of cats and hawks or get the hell out of there. The schoolyard taught me that humans are basically monstrous when they detect weakness - and the lack of empathy leads to potentially awkward responses. Basically I read my audience and play the most appropriate card. You can pick an ASPD by taking careful note how hard they are studying you. They might even forget to blink. It's so they can fake their responses, knowing that only socially expected responses are acceptable. Being myself in public is never an option. I know my perspective is generally beyond the pale, so I fake it most of the time or just don't do social. Large social situations are a nightmare. No thanks. Hope this helps with understanding. Happy to chat.
Thomas73

[insideoutsider]

Originally Posted by Thomas73

Hey insideouter,
I don't believe empathy is a skill at all, but rather a generic capability. It originates in the part of the brain called the anterior insular cortex. People with ASPD tend to have undeveloped or poorly developed anterior insular cortex', so they literally cannot feel empathy...and there's no cure - it can't be developed.

My message was for anyone reading, ASPD or not.

Now that you mention it though, certain aspects of the big word "empathy" can definitely be developed for anyone.

We can discuss this if you'd like. I don't think anyone is a lost cause

[ReptileInYourHead]

Hey folks.
I don’t particularly relate to most of what has been discussed here, there are some shared feelings but the causes of said feelings come from a different source.
I’m curious about empathy though, it seems it is something that develops rather slowly compared to other mental faculties. Most teens seem to be lacking in it, what happens to your brain during that time, can empathy be narrowed according to stages of development?
I’m 43, and my empathy is working fine, but I just don’t seem to care about the info it’s relating to me. I often do something contrary to this info, again I wonder if it’s another stage of life where empathy changes.
Most likely it’s just me, my anger, and dissatisfaction with my environment though.

[insideoutsider]

Yeah I believe younger people are more narcissistic which also has to do with empathy and perspective taking.

It's not that they can't empathize, in my opinion they're just so much more concerned with their selves that they don't have the time or desire to perspective take.

With age, it can either become easier, or one can succumb to temptations such as addiction and crime and spiral downward.

Or, something in between.

[insideoutsider]

@CANDC - please change the title to "ASPD - Antisocial personality disorder - support discussion"

[CANDC]

Originally Posted by insideoutsider

@CANDC - please change the title to "ASPD - Antisocial personality disorder - support discussion"

Changed title per your request.
CANDC