Anxiety over COVID not going away.

The posts here show me that some in the American population do fully appreciate the extent of the threat COVID poses. I don't think we are being alarmists. We expect the threat to diminish eventually, but we foresee that we will continue to be threatened at some level way into the future. We see that states may be exacerbating the threat by ending precautions too soon. We know lots of our fellow citizens would like to believe what they want to believe. That's unsafe for everyone.

A lady at a grocery store got talking to me the other day. Her mask was around her neck. She said that "masks don't work." She further said that these COVID precautions are just an attempt to convert our nation into a "socialist" country. She didn't make a lot of sense. We started off talking about how Walmart is pushing it's own store brand and offering less name brand product on shelves. She said that was all part of turning our country "socialist."

Obviously, she has no idea what socialism is. Apparently, she equates any trend she doesn't like with socialism. I wish I had asked her where she gets her information from. She seemed to be parroting off stuff that had been fed to her. She seemed to have no capacity for thinking for herself. It reminded me of how the capital rioters sounded. There are an awful lot of Americans on that wavelength. We are really in a war against ignorance. I think we're losing this war. We're losing it in Texas. What's scarey to me is that my health is being threatened by other people's ignorance. And we have leaders - like the Texas governor - who want their constituents to be ignorant. You know, like telling them the power failure was due to "windmills freezing up." He darn sure knows better than that. I'm seeing where ignorance is one of the most dangerous things in the world. Furthermore, it's a hard thing to correct. It seems as though the ignorant like being ignorant. You can't tell anything to people who are willfully ignorant.

I guess there's 2 kinds of ignorance: There's innocent ignorance, which can be corrected with information. Then there's this willful ignorance of people who really don't want to know truth. They've invested so heavily in certain beliefs that they can't stand having those dumb ideas challenged.

Agree 100% Rose. The willful ignorance is going to be the undoing of our democracy. Have lived in Texas for decades I can tell you there’s a lot of people who disagree with those in power but they keep that power by gerrymandering and corruption. Of course I lived in Austin the blue eye of Texas.

It doesn’t help the other countries are pushing disinformation via the internet. Those who are willing to parrot that disinformation are a huge threat.

There is a huge anti-intellectualism, anti-science, anti-education and anti-logic movement in the US. Just look at the conspiracies blooming. Some of the ignorant beliefs are so bizarre it’s hard to imagine someone could believe such thing.

Yes ignorance is very dangerous. Especially when paired up with anger. And there are always those in power who want to keep general public ignorant and angry.

Guys, I have even seen in my country a group of covid deniers who counted even with members of the Police.

I think each country has its own bunch of assholes LMAO. Don’t think it’s an idiosyncracy of the States. And you know what happen in these cases, the internet makes easier the transmission of everything, even stupidity.

I get the impression that these willfully ignorant types are basically unhappy and bored with their own lives. They want to blame someone. They want fellowship with some kind of network. So they hook on to the fringe right. That immediately gives them a sense of belonging. When they get together with others of that ilk, they immediately have something to talk about. They enjoy learning "the talk" of the fringe because it's easy to learn. They want to sound knowledgeable, even though they don't know much about anything.

They have a way of making conversation by just parroting off stuff, which is so much easier than building a knowledge base about anything. Thinking for yourself is actually a lot of work. If you want to hang out with star-gazers, you have to actually learn something about astronomy . . . if you want to join the conversation at the local sky watchers club. That's true of joining most any group with a specialized interest. Such groups are a way to get social gratification, but there are dues to pay. You have to become educated about something. That's too much mental labor for a lot of people. Adopting conspiracy theories is a lazy man's way of having something to talk about. You don't have to engage in any rigorous thinking. In fact, it's preferable that you don't. Leave that to the "intellectuals," whom you prefer to scorn, as divine1966 points out. Such a person is so smart (in their own estimation) that they don't have "study" anything too hard. They're not going to be fooled by any scientists. Remember Sen. Cruz said that the believers in election fraud "know instinctively" that there is something wrong with the election process. That was a very revealing thing for Cruz to say. He lauds those who don't need a bunch of supporting facts, such as the courts require to entertain a challenge to election results. No siree. They are so smart in their "instincts" that they can just smell when something's off. They don't get fooled like the rest of us do by carefully reasoned opinions. They see through all that with their razor sharp minds.

Skepticism is a fundamental virtue of the scientific. They require evidence. The Qanon crowd turns that on it's head. They prefer to be always skeptical of facts, like the historian's claim that about 6 million Jews died in a holocaust. They're not going to be "taken in" by stuff like that. Doubting what is commonly accepted is their badge of being uncommonly smart. They recognize that advanced thinkers often reject common knowledge - like Gallileo rejecting that the world is flat. That's the category they see themselves in. They have found a shortcut to being smart - just reject stuff with no need to prove why. Your fellow members of your cult will congratulate you for it. You just know when stuff is fishy. Of course, what you doubt is always what the cult leaders tell you to doubt. They actually are the consumate followers. We belong to one of the many species in nature where a group derives its cohesiveness by dominant individuals exploiting the reality that an awful lot of people yearn to follow. When those follower types are mentally lazy, they get attracted to a movement that requires little commitment of mental effort. Your fellows in the cult will embrace you for parroting off the easily learned talking points. The lady I met at the store was a dope and very boring to talk with. Still, no doubt, she's got a circle of buddies. This is her solution to her loneliness. The willfully ignorant strike me as trying to remedy the loneliness that comes from not really having much to say, until they get furnished with easy to remember talking points.

Some good points, Rose. We have them here too in Chile, although they seem to be a smaller percentage of the population. Someone I used to consider a friend has gone down the social media rabbit hole, sharing videos about how masks make you sick, 5G is causing Covid (we don't have 5G here yet) and Bill Gates wants to put a chip in you. And, yes, a lot of those people think they are so smart and anyone that takes Covid seriously is a sheep.

Wow rose. Very astute observation. The whole post is so on point. “Nothing to say except memorizing some talking points” points that they found online or overheard, didn’t fully understand but memorized and thought it sounded smart

The other day I was listening to BBC world special about conspiracies. They were talking about how to deal with this kind of stuff. They interviewed this one family that are all estranged from one family member who is into extreme obsessive conspiracies. So this family member was willing to lose the entire family over her conspiracies. Like ignorance and anger were more important than a family. Then they interviewed these specialists who work with conspiracies. This one guy said that although you could gently give them suggestions to examine their views, you can’t really stop them. Unless they want to make changes, we really can’t make them see the light. You can’t stop these people. Comn this woman lost her family over it and she still wouldn’t give up! So sad

I also find willfully ignorant to be completely illogical in their hate of education. I think they fear learning. Like you can accidentally learn that you were wrong the whole time? I like to find out that I was wrong about something because that’s how I learn! They hate knowledge.

Wish I had seen that BBC program. I'm kind of fascinated at this phenomenon of the wilfully ignorant who latch on to these cult-like trends and movements. I'ld love to know more about what makes them vulnerable to buy into the crap they espouse. I've mentioned loneliness and ignorance. But I have only a vague grasp of just how they get so sucked in.

A friend of mine mouths all the "talking points." ("We're being robbed of our freedoms." etc.) She attends a huge, "non-denominational" church, where right-wing stuff gets preached from the pulpit. (I've gone with her a number of times.) This church got cited by local authorities for not conforming to COVID restrictions on large assemblies. I respect that she is a person of deep faith and is very virtuous in many ways. But her politics are completely dictated by this church. For instance, she's worried that homosexuals are trying to take over the nation and ruin our lives. One-on-one, she would never be unkind or intolerant toward anyone because of orientation. But she parrots off "the points." She seems to believe the pastor at her church gets all his ideas direct from heaven. That is the authoritative voice she listens to that must not be questioned. These folk are favorably disposed toward authoritarianism. It makes them feel more emotionally secure, I guess. I wish I understood them better.

It was on a radio channel. It’s the best channel. I listen on the way to work in the car but they also have a podcast you can listen at home. Just BBC world. News and then all kind of interviews. Science. People stories. Health news. It’s the best. Unfortunately I don’t always hear every detail as I gotta watch the road and then I often stop in the middle of the interview because I arrived lol

I think part of these fascination with conspiracies is coming from mental disorders or just anxiety over the world and not always from ignorance. My dad periodically falls into some strange beliefs but he is certainly not ignorant or lazy to learn. I think it soothes some type of anxiety about the world and gives them sense of security. Funny thing he could completely switch his views in the blink of an eye. He is not militant about it though but there is no point to argue. He isn’t covid denier though lol he is weird about other stuff

“BBC world service” I meant

Thanks. I love talk radio. Where I am, it's pretty much all rightwing stuff on the radio. But I listen anyway, while doing housework. It's more extreme than what we hear on TV. The sowing of hatred they do is just sad. I'll have to learn how to get podcasts.

I think you're correct, divine, about these rightwing cult followers seeking a defence against some kind of deep seated anxiety. I see it on people's facebook postings too. Someone I follow responded to Jan. 6 by saying he had stocked up on bullets. He is constantly ranting against mainstream media. When he posts memes, I trace them to their facebook source. At the source facebook pages, I see some really vile stuff. These kind of facebook walls seem not to belong to real human beings. They post some bio information that seems fishy.

Texas will serve as an experiment in what happens when precautions are blown off. Time will tell how that works out. Houston is a major port; Dallas is an air travel hub. Those places could be portals for variant COVID strains to enter and gain a foothold . . . and then desseminate further afield. Texas could screw up the whole country. I went through Dallas last spring and noticed how mask wearing was not taken seriously there. This was at the airport. That's the worst place to ditch precautions.

I have XM radio. It has everything you want. I have it with the car but apparently I can listen it on home devices, I just don’t. It’s not that expensive. Look up Sirius XM.

SiriusXM - Stream or Listen to Music, Entertainment, Sports & More

One of my stepdaughters lives in Dallas, we travel there quite a bit and she comes here but we haven’t seen each other since lock down . Texas is like a foreign country. She is safe because she works from home and literally goes no where but her aunt’s house few streets over, she is a home body thankfully. It’s so crazy and unsafe out there.

I’m very glad to have moved from Texas the year before everything broke. Between the virus and the snow that broke water pipes and zapped power I wouldn’t have had a good time being single and poor. The Texas infrastructure is a huge mess owned by 1% corporate bigwigs. Even the main highyways are a mess cause they mismanagement of the federal monies they get for them. I always left at 2-3 am to be in Oklahoma before traffic got bad.

Texas is like a country within a country. It's huge. I guess there's just shy of 30 million people there. I'm surprised that the state is as poorly run as that power outage tells me is the case. So they just don't keep up with infrastructure. Sounds like the state can't be trusted to run itself. I would have thought Texas was big and rich enough to have it's act more together. Apparently not.

This, so much! The internet was supposed to make us smarter by giving us immediate access to information and the ability to share knowledge. We didn't worry about the downsides of people segmenting and associating only with those who think like they do.

Internet is a huge source of information if you know what you are looking at! There are people who believe everything on there. And then there are those who think you can learn everything from just reading and watching on the internet and know as much or more than those who are actually experts in the field. They have “google degree”. Then they spread misinformation to other gullible folks. Scary stuff

Agree! Internet is like an amplified of the good or the bad that exists.
Don’t take me bad. I’m very happy to have internet and any possible technology advance that can help us is welcome. But, let’s say that in the net, the typical gossips and bull$hit of neighbourhood are huge in the internet.

There are many possibilities and freedom to expose your ideas but it’s like TV in older times. All what was broadcasted on TV was considered truth. And there is how we are manipulated.

Luckily, things are changing, little by little, the main goal in Education is to give people freedom to choose and freedom to think. I wonder why people in the power the first state that wants to put their hands on is Education (ironic).

A friend of mind used to say that they attended and get their PhD in the University of Google. lol

Thanks for the interesting discussion above about the effect of the Internet on people's thinking. I agree. It enables me to be much more able to understand what's going on in the world. I'm naturally skeptical, and I try to diversify my sources of information. I keep in mind that everyone has an axe to grind. Lot's of people seem to just hop on a band wagon and engage in "group think." Some of my relatives whom I follow on Facebook seem to get all their opinions from politically biased sources. Once you know their bias, you can predict their opinions on everything. They perpetuate the "memes" they see on very biased Facebook sources. The Internet has amplified the divisions in our society, as discussed above.

In some ways, modern computer based media has become a tool of the Devil. Besides fueling the polarization of society, it seduces us into spending too much time "online" at the expense of attending properly to our responsibilities and opportunities IRL. I'm astonished at how common it has become for PC members to describe being in love with persons they have hardly spent any time with IRL, but have mainly communicated with online. More and more, people are living "virtual" lives. Instead of leaving the house to encounter our fellow humans, we stay home and "let our fingers do the walking," as the jingle in the old phone book ad put it. I'll admit that I'm on my "digital device" for hours every day and even take it to bed with me. COVID has exacerbated this habit of mine by making me more reluctant to leave the house. I've recently gotten into a depressed mood. My main idea regarding how to deal with that is to watch Youtube videos about depression. It would probably be smarter to put down my "device" and get out of the house, but the Internet keeps beckoning to me. Part of why I give in to that is because of the anxiety I described at the start of this thread. Yesterday, while I was at Walmart, I got an attack of chest pain from anxiety. I couldn't wait to get back home.

I feel like I've got to get out more. I live alone and feel like I'm not having enough contact with other humans, but my COVID anxiety has me fearful that such contact carries the risk of ruining my health.

I'm still waiting to get vaccinated. I wonder if getting those shots will make me feel less afraid? I'ld be interested in how others feel about getting vaccinated. Will it let you go back to normal living, or not quite?