Dealing With Panic Attacks, worse on an annual basis

Yep, those intrusive thoughts are the worst. They just get stuck.

Tbh with you, the ones that got stuck in my head 14 years ago seemed so awful and debilitating at the time, but now, looking back, they seem almost oddly funny- like why was that what got stuck? One major issue revolved around people parking in front of the house, especially bad if it was a county or other government vehicle. And I have no reason for the fear, but that was what developed and stuck. I could be having a pretty good day, and someone would pull over under our nice shade tree to make a phone call, and the panic would take hold and carry through the rest of the day. (What are they doing here? What do they want? Is something wrong with the house?) At that point, i was so sensitized that I could be anywhere in the house or on the property and be aware of a vehicle pulling up in front of our house or two houses on either side. Ugh. It's exhausting to be that "on" all the time.

Good luck with the CBD, I'd be interested to hear how that goes for you.

That's awesome that you are journaling! Many people are resistant to that. I started journaling about 4 years ago, and like you, started seeing patterns that weren't clear before. For me, a lot of it revolves around DH's mood swings, which through journaling look a lot like a form of bipolar (he also seems to be on the narcissistic/borderline spectrum), but he can't and won't see it- but through journaling, I don't have to justify or deny the pattern to myself any longer. He has his worst episodes this time of year- noteable depression in April, then hypomanic type behaviors in June and July. Like clockwork, he'll have a major emotional meltdown in the summer- wonder why my anxiety is piqued at present...? This year has been okay so far because I can now see it as him and not me- and also make sure I act accordingly and don't engage his disorder when it arises.

Journaling also allows me to just dump feelings out and move forward. There are things in the journal that I would never say in real life. Sometimes you can have such deep frustration and no good way to purge it. A journal can be a good friend indeed.

If much of what I write here resonates with you, I wonder if you might get something from that book I mentioned up above? Hope and Help for Your Nerves. It's a small book and you can probably get a used copy shipped through eBay for less than $6. You can also look at a preview at Amazon to see what you think. It's an older book and they didn't call it CBT then, but that's what it is. What resonated with me the most about the book was that she explains your nervous system and why the anxiety pattern develops - as well as how to settle it down. She also breaks down the common complaints of anxiety (look at the table of contents, they're listed individually). And she explains those symptoms in detail. For me, it took so much of the mystery out of the symptoms, and made them a lot less scary. That book (and her book on agoraphobia) is probably the most life altering book I've ever read- no kidding. It changed my life, taught me how to deactivate the anxiety and not give it so much power when it does come up. I can't recommend it enough on the offchance it might be of some help.

I can completely understand the anxiety that's keeping you from visiting. Don't be too hard on yourself. Wow, I totally get that.... Feeling like you have responsibility to someone or are failing in that. My DH has had a lot of physical and mental issues the last few years (in addition to those already mentioned) and I had become too focused on his problems at the expense of myself. I've quit trying to solve his issues and leave that to him and the professionals, but it's tough at times, especially when he's behaving in very disordered ways that he can't see, and he won't be receptive to my saying anything. Live and let live, support where I can- but it's hard at times. When you live with a partner or family member you love who has problems, without very good boundaries, their illness can eventually take a big toll on you. Don't know if you might be dealing with that sort of thing also. It's very important to be able to step back, take care of yourself, and make sure your own needs are met.

This got very long winded. Hope there's something of value in there!

You're doing great, because each day you're taking a very positive step of trying to be better than you were yesterday.

It would be easy to look at my situation and think that a lot of my stress and anxiety comes from dealing with my girlfriend's problems, but they pre-date our relationship by a fair bit. I won't say that sometimes she doesn't help. At this exact moment, I'm lying awake in bed with persistent thoughts about the morning - including me agreeing to bring her some supplies she needs - and I cannot sleep at all. I should have been conked out two hours ago, and the second I actually try to lie down and rest, my mind starts racing and it just won't happen. I've taken some ZZZQuil and my reactive meds. I'm tired as hell and I just cannot sleep because I'm worried about the fact that I won't be able to get much.

Funny how anxiety loops work like that. Completely counter-intuitive. They are, in effect, their own problem.

I'm slowly getting through my therapy program, but I got stuck on a certain section. I was talking about it to the friend who recommended I start journaling , asking if she had any ideas what the take-away from it was since I was turning up blank. She said, "...this is basically the same advice I have you three days ago. Journaling lets you break down your emotions into their components and then gives you a look at the big picture." Kind of reminds me of advice I often give my girlfriend when she says that therapy won't help because she's heard everything at this point: the advice that changes your life won't be something you've never heard, it'll be something you already know said in a way that finally resonates with you.

I feel like I can definitely relate to your situation with your DH (Dear Husband? I'm unfamiliar with this term) on both ends of it. My girlfriend and I both feel like giant pains in the *** to the other because of our individual struggles and we both have some learning to do about not letting what the other one is going through bring us down too.

I have been doing better, but I'm at that part of recovery where I start feeling anxious because I realize that I'm actually doing better and then it's all I can focus on. I bought myself a Switch and a few games... hoping the experience of something completely new will provide a good distraction until my meds and/or therapy can get me leveled out. I do think the increased dosage I'm on is helping, but it's happening very, very slowly. I was talking to my grandfather and he said something that really stuck out to me - the meds that will help should work slowly, because the stuff that works faster will wear off just as quickly. I sincerely hope he's right.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. But that's okay, just sitting here and getting my feelings out is helpful, especially to someone I know has been in my shoes and knows what the struggle looks like. You give me hope that there is a light at the end of this tunnel, and I sincerely appreciate that. <3

I hope you were able to get some sleep and that today is a relatively good day.

I went through a couple of years where I don't think I was able to sleep more than a couple of hours at a time

Getting stuck in the loop is awful. Getting out of it is tough. It absolutely can happen though.

If I can offer you anything, I hope it's HOPE, because I'm living proof that you can get out of the loop and feel okay again. It's just a matter of finding the right thing that works for you. Tbh with you, the only reason meds were not part of the deal for me was because I was too anxious to go to a doctor. You will get there! Just don't ever give up.

Your grandfather sounds smart. Slow and steady wins the race. He's probably right about the meds.

H does stand for husband. D is a variable depending on the day

You're lucky that your girlfriend is aware of herself and takes responsibility. One of the issues here is that Dh is not very self aware, and everything always seems to be someone else's fault. That's where the super strong boundaries come in. I deal with him, but it's not always easy and it can take its toll. That's not to say that he is/was the sole reason for the anxiety.

Some of what comes out when I journal surprises me. Have you had that experience? Like a revelation that seems to come out of nowhere?

Wow, I really like what you said about the thing that changes your life being something you already knew, but in a new way. That's like Jedi wisdom.

I always felt afraid when things started to feel better because i didn't want it to slip back and feel bad again. The rollercoaster is rough. But setbacks are normal. Try to float through them and you get back to a better place before too long.

What games are you playing on your Switch? My DD is a Zelda fan and has been playing Tears of the Kingdom lately. It's so beautiful and relaxing .

Did you get the CBD oil? How is that going? Does it have much of a flavor, and if so, is it pleasant?

Hope you have a great Saturday!

I ended up getting about 3 hours of sleep, but thankfully was able to pull through the day. I even managed to get myself out to drive some stuff up to my girlfriend in the hospital since I feel like the medication (the Zoloft) is finally starting to build up enough that I'm leveling out. It was a little touch and go heading there, but once I turned around to come home I suddenly felt much better (as I always do) and it really felt good to just feel free. I've been holed up and not gone anywhere farther than work for the last month and a half, and when you spend that much time letting anticipation build up for something like that, it really gets to you.

I definitely learned a lot from journaling and did so pretty quickly, actually. A lot of people probably dismiss it as "fruity", but honestly I see it as a purely scientific approach to my problems. It's how I realized that I'd gotten to a point where stress in general was translating to anxiety and it was getting triggered a lot by talking to my girlfriend. She is indeed aware and means well, but boundaries are definitely an issue and she has a difficult time being supportive since she's often not sure how.

I have been drinking CBT-infused tea, actually, and it does seem to be helping quite a bit (not really sure how much of it is psychosematic, though). I have tried the oil in the past and found it didn't do much back when I wasn't on actual medication. The lower-concentrations of oil all taste pretty good, but the higher-concentration ones all pretty much taste like weed. I've also ordered some CBD coffee that I want to try out since I've really not enjoyed giving up my coffee as of late and I'm starting to run out of tea since I sorta bought up the entire stock my local liquor store had.

I am doing better, but I am definitely with you on overthinking getting better. The little anxiety I have experienced in the last few days all came about because I realized that I was doing better and my mind was like, "well... why aren't you freaking out? You should be!"

I got the Switch just because when I get like this one of the best things for me is to try something new and I'd heard good things about Breath of the Wild, so I picked that up along with Mario and a few other games. Zelda hasn't come in yet, so I've just been playing Mario. Given that the most modern thing I own aside from this Switch is a PS2, it's quite the leap for me :P

I'm glad you have been able to work past your problems and grateful that you've been talking so much to me and helping me through mine. The support I've had from other people has really been a godsend.

Hi Billy,

How have you been?

Has sleep been any better?

How is your girlfriend?

That's great that you were able to get over to see her and that you felt good in the latter part of the day.

My anxiety is much better when I make a point of leaving home every day. Even if it's just for a short walk around the block. Not sure why this is, but it's almost like hitting a reset button. It takes me out of the hum drum zone of being around the house, and just switches my gears.

Your thoughts on journaling are insightful. It's great that you have embraced it and found how it works for you.

For me, a lot of time, it's like a brain dump. Like offloading the garbage

How's the CDB oil tea going? Did the store get more tea in stock? lol. I'd be interested to hear how your CBD coffee tastes.

A while back I heard a quote I liked - "Feelings are visitors, not roommates.". Whatever you're feeling isn't permanent, it's just stopping by for a while.

Hope you're having fun with your Switch. Did you get Zelda yet? My daughter said she thought Breath of the Wild was much more relaxing than the new game. Hope you think so too. I love that world and got lost watching DD wander around it for hours . It's like a virtual vacation.

Hope the week is going well for you so far!

I've been sleeping better, though that's mostly because I do shiftwork and this is my off week. Girlfriend is back and home and I've been pretty much just wandering around in Zelda foraging for food and assaulting wildlife. It's really helping me relax and unwind.

Making a point to get out is also important. My therapist asked me what "relaxing" means to me, and I said a hot cup of coffee, a game, and nothing else to do for the rest of the day... with the emphasis on that last one. I've found that if I have something I have to do later - even if it's something I want to do - it'll be all I can focus on and then I can't relax. As a result, I tend to do more early in the day rather than later. That said, I did go out to a concert last night and it went pretty much how my excursions tend to: really anxious on the way there, settled down once I got there, and on the way back it was like nothing had happened.

I ordered a case of CBT Tea that should be in tomorrow, but this week I've been trying the coffee. It tastes all right, but it's still a little too early to tell how well it's working with me overall. I may just go back to my regular coffee and stick to the tea or maybe try oil again for CBD. Not really sure at the moment.

That's a pretty good quote about feelings, too. They are like visitors... just those really annoying visitors who make themselves a little too much at home and won't take a hint about when it's time to leave :P

So yeah, I'm doing much better and I hope you're doing well too. How's your husband doing?

That's good news that your girlfriend is back home. Hope she is doing okay.

Love that description about assaulting wildlife. Yep, that's accurate. DD calls the early part if the game "pickin' up sticks and apples."

My preference these days is to do most things earlier in the day too. I totally feel you there! It's no problem if I need to go out later, but at this point it really more suits my personality to work the day that way. Is it possible that just getting things out of the way and freeforming the rest of the day suits your personality better? (As opposed to something that's potentially about anxiety)

It sounds like you were glad that you went to the concert. You definitely didn't let the anxiety take the wheel, so that's great! Exactly what you should do.

Well, I'll stay tuned to see how your CBD oil experience goes.

Yeah, you know the visitors I'm talking about . It's an interesting way to look at feelings though. Once you really see how true it is, it can make them more tolerable. You can know that you'll get to the better feeling part of your day at some point. As part of my CBT, I also use to say "what is, not what if," to remind myself to deal with problems that actually existed, and not ones that were only potential, or based on some ambiguous feelings.

Thanks for asking about me. Another week. I manage as best I can. Dh had some interesting problems at work this week and who knows where the truth lies? Today he's been about five different personalities - from so depressed that he won't talk, to so excited he looks manic, to angry at the world. He seems not real self aware of how weird and big the fluctuations are. Anyhow, it feels like June/July in our house. I'm doing much better this year just focusing on me and not getting sucked into the drama (at least so far). Just keep on keeping on....

Glad to hear that you have been doing well! Hope the weekend is great for you!

Still waiting on the CBD tea shipment to come in. And since I'm back on shift right now I'm not making the coffee, either. Yesterday was the first day in awhile I went without either CBD or the hydroxozine, and I felt pretty good. So still really hard to say exactly where I'm going to go from here on that front.

I'm also a bit stuck with my therapist at the moment regarding CBT since I reached a point in my program where I really couldn't answer the questions being asked. Our most recent interaction, she asked if the thoughts came first or the physical sensation. Was this something that you encountered when you were learning it?

It really sounds like a bit of a seesaw with your husband's problems and your own. There's a lot of give and take trying to figure out the right amount of focusing on your own problems and helping your partner with theirs (I can definitely relate!). I'm glad you're keeping on, though. Like you said earlier, if there's anything you can offer me, it's the hope that things can and will get better. That said, I also quite enjoy the company as well! <3

I just realized that it's been four days since I said anything here. I guess I've really been getting sucked into Zelda, which... honestly, I appreciate. I can't remember the last time that I spent an entire week straight playing a game and enjoying it. It really brings me back to when I was younger and didn't have so many worries and it's been a really good recharge for me. I've gotten so deep into developing games that I can't turn that critical part of my brain off and just enjoy something without overanalyzing it and thinking how it could be improved. And while I am doing it to at least some degree here, I'm not letting it stop me from enjoying it. I'm having a great time just exploring and lowering Hyrule's wolf population.

[QUOTE=BillyTBum;7341278]
....."....
My therapist asked me what "relaxing" means to me, and I said a hot cup of coffee, a game, and nothing else to do for the rest of the day... with the emphasis on that last one. I've found that if I have something I have to do later - even if it's something I want to do - it'll be all I can focus on and then I can't relax. "

I feel that way too, sometimes.

Hey again

Glad to hear that you're surviving pretty well without coffee, or the other stuff. Sounds like things may be in a potentially level place at the moment. Hope it keeps moving that direction.

The question you asked about thoughts or physical sensation coming first is a really good one. I had to think about that for a while! Honestly, it was like a loop for me, where one fed into the other and then back again. As uncomfortable as the physical sensations were, the thoughts were more distressing and therefore worse for me. Initially, I focused on quieting the thoughts, and when they calmed down quite a bit, the physical sensations seemed odd. Like out of place and without direction. After a while, with the thoughts calmed, it began to seem like the physical sensations were just my nervous system being overactive and shooting off wildly. Without the thoughts to fuel it on further, and accepting that the physical sensations were nothing more than physical sensations, they burned themselves out over time. That doctor who I quote all the time likened it to the ringing of a bell. Where you can continue to hear the humming resonance for a while after the bell has been rung. It fades away in time.

That's not to say that the anxiety doesn't still happen from time to time, but the CBT taught me how to deactivate it more quickly. Like now I can generally reregulate in about 15 minutes and get on with the day, rather than loop around and around endlessly. Sometimes, when things are rough around here, I may have to reregulate a few times in a day. So, it's not being anxiety free, but rather learning how to manage it quickly when it comes up- and not allow it to build back to that really bad place.

Hope that makes some sense....

Ditto about enjoying the company

You are so right- it can be very hard to find that balance between how much you should do for someone else versus how much you need to do for yourself. I've learned a lot about strong boundaries and healthy selfishness the last couple of years.

Is game developing what you do for work? If so, that sounds very interesting.

Glad to hear you are enjoying Hyrule and all that it has to offer. It's an amazing and beautiful world. One of my favorite things is when DD generates twenty heart Wolf Link with an amiibo nfc tag. Wolf Link runs around with Link, which is really cute, though he often does himself in pretty quickly by attacking wildlife or monsters (once he's gone, he can't come back until the next day). I picked up a tag on Etsy for like $5, but if you can make your own nfc tags, you can sometimes find the files online. Oh, and if you're having trouble honing in on something with your sensor, Wolf Link will sometimes guide you right to what you're looking for. He's a great virtual dog

Hope it's been a good week.

Things are going pretty well. I'm back to night shift and this is my first night shift in awhile where I haven't had nightly panic attacks. I've been going through CBD tea and have found myself taking my hydroxozine (my "as needed" med) less and less lately. There's a lot of factors, of course - one of which is just unwinding and enjoying myself. Luckily, I have a job where I can play games all night.

Game development is a hobby, not a job. A more accurate term would be modding or hacking, actually, since I don't actually make original content, I just improve what's out there to the best of my ability. If you've ever heard of Final Fantasy VI, my most well-known work is a mod for it called Brave New World. My ACTUAL job is network operations for a differential GPS provider, which affords me a good deal of spare time to pursue my passion projects.

The thoughts and physical feeling conundrum has had me pretty perplexed for the last few days, too. My knee-jerk instinct was to say the feelings, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In most cases, I think it's actually the thoughts that come first. But what happens is, like someone in this thread (possibly you) said earlier, excitement and general stress all start to feel like anxiety after awhile, and that's the scenario where the feelings come first and your mind reacts inappropriately. A good example is when I get in my truck every morning to go to work. I live in Houston, so it's approximately several thousand degrees here right now. Every time that wave of hot air hits me I feel a wave of anxiety because the air is hot enough to actually be choking. What should just be a mildly uncomfortable feeling is anxiety-inducing because it feels just for a moment like I can't breathe.

I guess the thing to zero in on is the actual process of quieting my thoughts, then. Up until now my main strategy has just been distracting myself, which is only somewhat effective. I'm guessing that's where the CBD techniques will come in.

Do you ever feel like problems you have ever made it difficult for you to be there for your husband when he needed you? I feel like I might have asked a similar question awhile ago. It just feels to me like part of being an adult is having so much responsibility that it's just not ever okay for me to not be okay for awhile and take the time I need to not be. My girlfriend is a sweet person, but she's pretty constantly in need of help, and often much more than I'm able to provide. It's hard sometimes to not blame myself for not doing more, especially when all that's holding me back is something "stupid" like anxiety.

Hope your week is going well, too! It's back to Zelda for me now. Thankfully, the princess is patient enough to wait for me to run around Hyrule harassing animals and taking pictures of plants.

Hey Billy,

It's great to hear that things have been going okay recently. That's really great news that the night time panic attacks seem to be staying at bay.

Wow, your hobby is next level. Seriously, that is awesome. I'm familiar with the franchise, though have never played it. How long have you been modding games? That's really cool.

Your "real job" sounds like a good fit for you? Do you enjoy that work as well?

From what I understand, reactions of the nervous system are similar for any sort of anxiety/anger/excitement, so it's possible to trigger that same sensation with any of those. It's not uncommon for someone's first big bout of anxiety/panic to be triggered by being too hungry. They get scared and don't understand what caused it, which can inadvertently start the bigger anxiety cycle. Anyhow, once you're in a sensitized state, it's not unusual to get tripped up by things like the heat situation. It's very positive if you move past it quickly.

Distracting yourself isn't generally very effective, because in a sense it's avoiding whatever is causing the anxiety, which tends to give it some credibility to the brain.

Do you have CBT techniques in your arsenal yet? If you don't mind sharing, what exercises do you use as CBT?

Mine mostly used both exposure and 'turning the mind'/mindfulness depending on the situation. Exposure therapy for things that could be overcome directly (like anxiety about driving- btw, I love driving again at this point, though at peak anxiety it had become difficult). And the mindfulness was good for things that couldn't be corrected directly- like bad thoughts and "what-if" worries. Instead of distracting or trying to fight or banish the bad thoughts, I'd turn my mind to the physical environment and focus on things outside of myself (sights, sounds, smells, etc) until the thoughts and sensations passed.

Of course there are still times that you should have a vacation in your mind and enjoy being distracted, but it's good if it's not connected directly to an anxiety reaction.

—-> Do you ever feel like problems you have ever made it difficult for you to be there for your husband when he needed you? I feel like I might have asked a similar question awhile ago. It just feels to me like part of being an adult is having so much responsibility that it's just not ever okay for me to not be okay for awhile and take the time I need to not be. My girlfriend is a sweet person, but she's pretty constantly in need of help, and often much more than I'm able to provide. It's hard sometimes to not blame myself for not doing more, especially when all that's holding me back is something "stupid" like anxiety.<----

I fell into a very bad place over several years of trying to help dh, which came at heavy cost to myself. I became "other" focused on him and essentially lost a lot of my own identity. It's a form of codependency- and what brought me to these forums. I mostly didn't matter anymore. His problems were seen as so big, that only he got care and attention.

I've since learned that when someone in a relationship has some kind of serious disorder- mental health disorder, personality disorder, alcoholism, etc, that without strong boundaries it's not unusual for it to morph into a lopsided relationship.

Our responsibility is to ourselves first and foremost- without ourselves, who or what do we have? Tending to your own needs makes you better able to deal with other people. When your batteries are fully charged, other people get a much better version and experience of you.

Your needs are very important, even if they aren't as high on some perceived scale as hers, and you should take care of yourself without feeling guilty. It's up to you to decide how much help you can afford to offer her. Whatever your limit is, that's okay. Only you can determine what that looks like at any given time.

My dh doesn't like boundaries, btw. Sometimes it means he doesn't get his way, or feels like he's lost control of a situation or isn't the center of attention like he wants to be. That's hard for him, but necessary for me and DD. As much as we might want him to be happy and comfortable, we can't sacrifice our own happiness and comfort as the exchange, know what I mean?

Don't worry, Zelda will wait, and something tells me that once you do save her, she'll find a way to put herself in peril again.

Overall, last week was slightly rocky. Dh had a bad week and has been very out of sorts, but that's where that boundary/codependency thing comes in. His problems can weigh on the household and I feel compassion for him, but his problems and emotions aren't mine to take on- so I don't. So many things could be better, but I'm navigating it and choosing to do my best to not pick up what he's putting down

Hope the coming week is good for is all.

Btw, I want to ask about your avatar sometime, but this one is way too long already

I've been modding games ever since I realized that I could change the rules to Civilization 2 in a basic text file. For Final Fantasy VI in particular, that has been in development for over a decade now, although I've finally stepped back and said I'm done with it for awhile. It's rewarding, but the obsession can get to me after too long and start stressing me out.

It's actually a pretty good question now that I think about it, are people with anxiety issues more prone to addictive and/or obsessive behavior? I had myself pegged as obsessive compulsive for most of my early life, especially when I read more into it and understood that the basic problem is a communication error between your brain and body where the brain never gets feedback that the requested task has been completed, leading to an endless loop.

I tried to channel that tendency into something positive with things that I create. The perfectionism means that I make things that are highly polished, but it also means I have a very hard time not screwing with it once it's done. Playing Zelda has been all of the positives of that obsessive behavior - I've been at it for two solid weeks straight - but none of the downsides of feeling like I'm working on something that will never get finished. And in a roundabout way, I think a lot of anxiety comes down to feeling "stuck".

I do very much enjoy my job, as well. Been doing it for 15 years and honestly couldn't go back to any other job at this point

It's interesting that you say distracting myself isn't effective because it gives credibility to my brain for the fears because that's the way I feel when I take medicine to combat it or engage with grounding techniques - I feel like I'm acknowledging it and that makes it real. My therapist gave me a list of affirmations just before she had to step away for a medical emergency, but I'm not exactly sure that's what you would call a CBT technique. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what my mental response to anxiety is (hence the earlier question of if the physicals sensation or the thoughts come first) since CBT is, to my understanding, about directly addressing that response.

And I haven't dealt with much anxiety lately because I haven't been putting myself in situations that will cause it, i.e. going out. Something that occurred to me that part of my anxieties about going out boil down to the fact that I never go out anymore because I want to, only because I have to. And I find that often that resentment of having to go out and do something rather than staying home like I want puts me in the mindset that makes me susceptible to panic attacks since it's all I can focus on.

So, playing Zelda has been a lot more to me lately than just experiencing something new, it's me engaging in some years-neglected self care. I do understand (and, to an extent, dread) that exposure will be a critical factor in conquring my anxieties. But when it happens, I want it to be because I initiated it, not because it was something I had to do.

I definitely understand what you mean by boundaries - my girlfriend has a very hard time with them, as well. Communication is a bigger issue, as well. She has a lot of difficulty telling me what she needs from me, and of course I can't give her what she needs if I don't know what it is. But I also have a tendency to put myself out more than I should trying to be there for her... including going out a lot more than I'd prefer to. Part of the above-mentioned self care is not over-extending myself as much in that regard, sort of like what you've been doing. It's hard sometimes, but like you say we're no good to anyone if we're not good ourselves.

Thank you so much for talking to me and sharing your experiences with not only your anxieties, but handling a relationship with someone with their own problems. It feels sometimes like talking to you helps me put my thoughts together even moreso than with my therapist. It's really helping me along and I appreciate it a lot. I hope your week has been going well!

(Oh, and my avatar is the cover of Iron Maiden's Powerslave album. I'm a pretty huge fan, and my FF6 mod is even named after another one of their albums.)

I'm glad if some of this is helpful to you. I've really enjoyed it too. You've helped me gain new perspectives as well.

That's interesting about ocd and the feedback loop. That's new to me and makes a lot of sense. Here's a million dollar question that Dr. Weekes poses:

Does the obsession actually bother you or interfere negatively with your life?

It sounds like you know where your limit is and when to step back.

Dr. Weekes theorized that if you washed your hands 200 times a day, and it didn't interfere with your life, didn't cause intrusive thoughts, (or your skin to fall off), then it wasn't a problem. It's only a problem when it presents negative ramifications for you.

It struck me that your game modding may be a bit like my hobby-craft of writing. That can definitely fall into obsession, but it doesn't have negatives as far as I'm concerned, so I embrace it fully. It's not unusual for me to write fifty pages and go over it uncountable times to polish it out. To me, honing it is akin to someone finishing a piece of fine furniture- it's pretty clear if they stopped short, and beautiful if they didn't. If you want to master your craft, you have to aim for mastery. It doesn't interfere with any aspects of life, everything that needs to be done gets done, and it doesn't affect my mental state negatively (if anything it improves it). BUT, like you indicated with what you do, there's a limit. It's kind of like the scene in Forrest Gump when he's been running for a couple of years, stops in the middle of the road and says he's done and going home. When the meter's pegged out, I quit without reservations, sometimes for a long time.

And that's not to say that there aren't ideas floating around in my head every hour of every day. It's finding that balance of living in both worlds. Sometimes, I do have to mindfully focus in on what's going on around me, rather than what's in the noggin. (This is typical of my personality type- more on that in a bit)

To me anyway, the way you try to perfect what you do makes a lot of sense, especially since you share it with the world.

It's great to hear that you enjoy your job. I love meeting people who like what they do.

Those things you described that make the anxiety feel real- if you sit with those feelings, do they lessen? Do they feel worse when you acknowledge the reality? Or better?

How are the meds so far?

The type of unfounded credibility I was thinking of was stuff that might seem silly to typical people. There were a lot of irrational fears with my anxiety. Some seemed very scary and real at the time. Here's a pretend example- keeping it light: Say someone has a fear of ladybugs. As a result, they may not go outside, go check the mail, clean out cabinets, go to the park, etc. for fear of encountering dreaded ladybugs. By mentally responding to a what-if that may never even come up, their brain decides it must really be a problem, and gives it credibility. That's where exposure therapy works- go sit at the park for an hour and realize there aren't even any ladybugs there. And if there are, they aren't really all that scary or something that can't be handled.

Forgive me if I get this wrong, but you talk about your preferences, and the things you need and want, as if they may not be what you should be doing. It seems like you feel pressure to do certain things, even if they don't presently suit you.

We live in a world that loves certain personality types, so those of us (most of us) who have different preferences can feel a little flawed, even though we aren't. Have you ever taken a personality test? There's a really good, free one at 16personalities. com, if you're interested. Learning about personality type helped me realize that the way I function and my preferences aren't just fine, they're inherent. It can be validating.

I'm an unusual personality type (and probably a lot of people on the forums are the same one ), that's known as the extrovert of introverts. We love people, will talk to anyone and everyone about anything and everything, but have a strict limit and when we're done socializing, we're done- probably for at least a week. Then we go introverted to charge our batteries. Unfortunately, this is confusing for other people who saw us having fun and enjoyed our company. Now they don't understand why we don't want to go out with them the next day… they think something's wrong… but it isn't, it's a personal need. Without understanding that personality need, it's easy to inadvertently harm ourselves by trying to make others happy in ways we can't afford. Understanding personality dynamics helps manage preferences and relationships more effectively- and more importantly to accept ourselves for things that aren't actually flaws or problems at all.

A few posts back, you said something about adult responsibilities and feeling overwhelmed at times. One of the huge things that codependency work taught me is that when you only tend to your own responsibilities, life usually gets much easier. It's when you're trying to fix things that aren't your responsibility that you get overwhelmed- because you probably aren't going to be very effective at fixing it, or it's none of your business anyway.

My dh is similar to your gf in that he doesn't always know, or isn't able to express himself well. He also has passive aggressive patterns, so it's hard to get a bead on when he's having an actual big problem, and when he's being manipulative. There are some days that he doesn't talk and who knows if he's depressed and shut down, or giving us the silent treatment as emotional manipulation? I don't try to figure this out anymore, it's too taxing on time and energy. I ask him if he's okay, or if he needs anything. If he doesn't know what it is he needs, it's still his responsibility to say that he needs something but isn't sure what. It's not my responsibility to guess or drag it out of him. I also won't let him monologue and obsess at me for an hour or more. Boundaries and limits are based on our own tolerances, and not only are we allowed to have them, but need them in order to be healthy.

Oh geez, this is another one that got way too long .

D'oh! I probably should have had some idea about your avatar . Though not a devoted fan, I once performed a rendition of Run To The Hills that critics hailed as "something we'd prefer to never hear again." But seriously, I'm usually watching a couple of anime or animated series at any given time, and am currently rewatching Star Wars Rebels. Your avatar image is a little reminiscent of Zeb Orrelios, particularly when his eyes are shadowed. Perhaps Zeb was inspired by that cover.

How's Zels by the way?

Well, until next time…

Hang in there!

Knowing where my limit is and where to step back is something that took a looooooong time to figure out; I used to be very prone to working myself well past a breaking point. And the downside of that is that you have to pull back so much at that point that you start to feel like you're never going to be able to get anything else done anymore, which is kind of the point I'm at now. Even then, I'll still exhibit the same tendencies. I have what I refer to as "chronic restart syndrome" when it comes to playing games, where the more I learn about them the more I want to start over with the knowledge I've gained so that I can play it more optimally. It's the mentality that nothing is worth doing if it's not done perfectly that's really hard to break out of. I've thus far managed to avoid the urge to restart Zelda and just yesterday finished up the main game. Now I just get to run around Hyrule for all of eternity looking for little bits of golden poop :P

Thankfully, I'm at a point with my projects that I can take a nice long break and be comfortable with what I've produced. Like you said with your writing, the ideas are still there - I think constantly when playing Breath of the Wild about the many ways it could be improved. I'll never be able to turn off that critical part of my brain, but I suppose the real key is not allowing it to prevent me from enjoying what I'm doing, yeah?

I'm quite familiar with the 16 personality types, or at least the one I fit pretty squarely into, which is INTJ. Though this conversation inspired me to go re-take the quiz and I was kind of surprised that it labeled me as ISTJ this time, and the results weren't nearly as stacked this time around. I feel like the only thing that's really changed is that, although I still prefer my solitude in most cases, I've become more comfortable around other people and more empathetic toward their struggles. These two things go hand in hand - what made me more comfortable around others was the confidence in the positive energy I try to spread to other people. My parents both used to compare me to Dr. House (they hate each other and never speak, meaning both reached this conclusion on their own) and I was pretty comfortable with that comparison, but I can also say that I'd be pretty comfortable being compared to Jamie - or honestly even Adam - from Mythbusters.

I've never heard the "extrovert of introverts" label, though... I'm guessing INFP or INFJ?

My meds seem to have me pretty stable at the moment. Anxiety tends to be much more mild and infrequent lately; I've gone from taking hydroxozine at least once a day to taking it at most once every few days. Doing the CBT thing once a day, either via coffee or the tea. Hard to say whether or not that's contributing.


It is interesting that you mention tending only to my own responsibilities, because although my issues with anxiety go all the way back to when I was a child (although I didn't recognize it at the time), they do seem to have gotten much worse since I've been in relationships. Coinciding at least somewhat with me being uncomfortable going out is the fact that I never go out anymore because I want to, it's always because I *have* to. My previous girlfriend was legally blind and therefore could not drive, and my current partner drives what can only loosely be described as a marginally functional vehicle, making me her primary method of transportation in most cases. I could probably tie a lot of my anxieties about going out to the fact that I generally don't WANT to be out if I really thought about it. I'm just not how to resolve the fact that I have reached a point where those same anxieties also crop up when I'm going out because there's something I do want to do.

For now, at least, I'm just focusing on recharging. I'm staying in, playing Zelda more or less non-stop (see obsessive behaviors above), and letting myself feel okay for doing that. More importantly, I need to focus on improving at my own rate and not the rate that my girlfriend would prefer I get better at.

...very curious about that Run to the Hills rendition, by the way. Iron Maiden fans are some of the best people I've ever met. Must be why you're such a kind person :P

I have intrusive thoughts, too during panic attacks. I keep thinking I'm never going to get better and no one can help me. Hydroxozine or gabapentin don't do anything to me.

I will try to make this one a little shorter…

Forgive me if I fail

You describe your obsessive tendencies well. That makes a lot of sense. But it also sounds like you're doing a pretty good job controlling yourself and the obsessiveness?

They say that CBT is like game trails in the brain - traffic flows on the most used paths, so you can rewire yourself to some extent by practicing where you make yourself go. It seems like you're already doing this?

In time, new trails are worn and you'll feel like you have more control. That's not to say that the thoughts and feelings go away, it's more like they get reframed into something that has less effect on you, and you're less likely to fall into the loop.


—>I'll never be able to turn off that critical part of my brain, but I suppose the real key is not allowing it to prevent me from enjoying what I'm doing, yeah?<---

You're on the right track to acknowledge the feelings and thoughts without allowing them to disrupt you- that's actually a good description of a CBT mindfulness technique. It's kind of like being in a room full of people while you're busy with something. You can do what you're doing, be aware that there are other things going on around you, and still stay on task. It's a learned habit, but once you develop it, it's yours.

It seems like you may have more knowledge about the 16 personalities than I do! ISTJ That sounds pretty good. Do you feel like you take care of yourself as that personality type? Or do you do things that are counter to it?

Love both Adam and Jamie, those are cool comparisons

Not sure about House, I never watched it. He was pretty direct and pragmatic, right? Did your parents mean that in a kind way?

You mentioned childhood anxiety, and your parents' dislike for each other… do you have childhood trauma patterns? I grew up in an unhappy, dysfunctional family where I was the scapegoat. You might find this hard to believe, but in real life, I don't generally talk much at all (except to DD). Growing up, I was marginalized and told to be seen and not heard. Childhood trauma - still live it to this day. It's probably why I started writing. Writing was, and still is, my sanctuary. Doing trauma work has helped a lot- once you see a piece of the puzzle from when you were younger, it can help put the issue to rest in the present. At least that's how it's been for me. Not sure if that applies to you, but if it does, trauma work was very helpful to my overall anxiety patterns.

Oh yeah. You got it, I'm an INFJ

It sounds like the last two relationships you've had have been with people who fall a bit on the more dependent side? And maybe that makes it hard to find good balance? With my husband and his problems, it often feels like I'm the caretaker of life-stuff and not much else. With SOs who have issues that cause you to give more than you might under other circumstances, it's extra important to have those boundaries and make sure your own needs don't end up drowned out.

Hey, I've got a cool thing to share with you. You seem well read, maybe you already know it, but it's relatively new to me. It's called TRE or trauma (or tension) release exercises. It's for PTSD, anxiety, stress, etc. You can check it out online if you're interested. You do simple exercises that fatigue the big muscles in your body until they go into controlled tremors. Then you tremor for a period of time and can end up very relaxed afterwards. Part of my CBT was to let uncomfortable physical sensations just pass in their own time, no matter how bad they were or how long that took. The TRE seems to be a way to speed up that process. It's like a way to burn the physical anxiety sensations out of the muscles faster. It's interesting stuff. It feels good too.

The neat thing about TRE, though, is that it seems to help even if you don't know the root cause of the anxiety, or if the trauma is too severe to confront directly.

Iron Maiden… what is there to say? Their songs can be incredibly fun to belt out. Let's just say that just because it's fun, doesn't make it good. *Sigh* You're right about their fans, some of the best people I've known were hard core fans.

Ya ha ha! Have fun finding those seeds Are you aiming for 100% completion?

Rock on

I do think I cam controlling my obsessive tendencies a lot better, though that mostly boils down to realizing when obsessing over something is causing stress and/or anxiety and being able to immediately shift gears and do something else. And I think the key cause is feeling "stuck" in some way. Like, modding is okay until I hit a really tricky problem that stumps me or start toi feel overhwlemed by my to-do list. I remember one time with Brave New World I was stuck on one issue for 4 days straight and it sent me into a full-on anxiety attack as a result.

Weirdly enough, I hadn't made the connection between not letting my overanalytical brain prevent me from enjoying a game and not letting intrusive anxious thoughts cause me problems until you pointed it out. Seems pretty obvious and I'm not sure how I didn't catch on before. Just goes to show how important having a sounding board can be!

I think the key aspect of House is that, to him, being right is of paramount importance, and he's a complete asshole about it. That does describe how I act toward my parents, but not really anyone else (they have a way of bringing out the worst in me). I realize the important difference between being right aqnd being productive, but I otherwise fit the bill pretty much exactly: pragmatic, logical, and aloof.

Speaking of my parents, I guess... there are definitely a lot of patterns there. The anxiety goes way back to when I was a little kid, except it wouldn't be until I was an adult that anything was correctly identified. There was a drawn-out custody/child support battle between my mother and father during which my first grade teacher testified that I would often "masturbate" in class. This, of course, was completely incorrect - I'd developed a nervous tic of scratching myself after being constantly told that I should not do that in public. This shaped a lot of my views, since it effectively boiled down to every single adult in my life being completely clueless about what was actually going on with me.

The other major aspect of my childhood that probably plays into all of this is that I was a loner with little to no actual parenting. For much of my life, I was comfortable with my solitude. I eventually started to feel lonely, but it's only been recently with the further development of my anxieties that I began to truly fear being alone. An overriding thought I have when I'm feeling anxious is that if nobody is around to help me then something might happen to me. But on the other hand, I learned from an early age that other people are pretty flaky and CAN'T really help me, so I don't really take that much comfort in the presence of others.

I share you passion for writing, as well. I find it therapeutic as a way to organize my thoughts, and often write articles about game design or tutorials on how to mod them. I've actually been considering writing up something on Breath of the Wild when I finally put it down. Writing is also a good way to get things out of my head - something I did a lot when I was younger. I learned about sex at a pretty early age, and my way of handling it was just to write down everything I'd learned and put it away in a drawer. Of course, my mother found it and that became ammunition to use against my father in the aforementioned custody battle... which, again, completely missed the point. My mother's emotional maturity to this day is comparable to that of a blueberry scone, and as a result our relationship has always been much more like that of siblings than mother/son.

And yes, pretty much every relationship I've ever been in all has one very specific thing in common: none of them were with people who were completely independent. I can't imagine that much is helping me, either. I think everything I've said in the last few paragraphs all really points to the fact that I've felt my whole life that I have to do everything by myself and nobody else can and/or will help.

I will need to look into TRE, for sure. It sounds similar to something I was reading about the other day, where in the military they teach you to fall asleep within minutes using progressive muscle relaxation. It definitely sounds like something that can help.

(Man, I've just given up at this point on not giving lengthy responses. Brevity is not in my wheelhouse.)

Anyway, I've done all of the main quest stuff in Zelda and it's effectively a hiking simulator where I look for golden poop and the occasional shrine, which is fine by me. It's relaxing and still plenty enjoyable, but I definitely have a lot to say and will probably end up writing about it. I hope everything is going well with you and I'm really glad that these interactions have been beneficial to you as much as they have been to me. I think I said it before, but more than a few things you've gotten me to say are things that I've pretty much gone right back to my therapist with.



Honestly, I'd struggle to tell you exactly how much hydroxozine helps me, too. Part of it is that it takes so long to take effect that, by that point, the attack could have easily passed on its own, so anything it does in the moment is just a placebo effect. Hell, I tend to feel better just knowing I have it to take if I need it.

Have you looked into CBD at all?

Hey!

Hope it's been a decent week for you.

How has it been trying to recognize when it's time to switch gears? Do you see the early warning signs? Is it getting easier to stop yourself sooner than later?

You have a lot to unpack from your childhood. I'm so sorry about all of that. It sounds like it was pretty chaotic at times. It seems like the adults around you were absolutely clueless at best, and failed you in so many ways. It's probably no great wonder that you turned out to be a practical person who figures out how to get things done.

What my parents did wouldn't actually fall into the category of functional parenting either. The counselor whose YouTube videos I followed for childhood trauma work (Patrick Teahan) is a childhood trauma survivor, whose parents didn't do much parenting either. In some of his videos, he says he went out into the world, at age 19, as basically a feral human being. That's a funny way to put it, but might be apt for some of us.

Something that stands out about you, is that you seem to have remained aware of the things you went through, even if the context changed? I never had much experience with disassociation or repressing memories in any significant way. Whatever was there, I've always owned- and generally had a sense of accountability for the other people involved. It's allowed me to confront the trauma and dysfunction head on. Wonder if that applies to you in some ways? You seem very open and straightforward about your experiences.

I think I sort of understand the feelings you have about being alone- sorry if I miss the mark here. It seems normal to want to feel connected to others, particularly when we're feeling vulnerable. Who doesn't want to be able to let their guard down, and know that someone else has their back?

Like you, people in my life have been largely undependable. Knowing how it feels to be abandoned in a time of need, is a lot of why I overgive to others- I know how it feels to 'get the nothing', so try to save others from having to feel that way. There's also a deep seated hope that if I give enough to others, maybe I'll eventually get some of that care in return. That's the codependent in me.

If you try the progressive relaxation technique, or the TRE, I'd be interested to hear how it goes. Do you have trouble falling asleep? Or staying asleep? Or both? I have trouble falling/staying asleep at times, but try to mindfully roll with it- just focus on resting and being comfortable more than stressing about not being asleep.

Lol, neither of us seem to be gifted with brevity. If you were, your mods might end up being mini games, right?

Hope your Hyrule hiking is going great. Out of curiosity , and if you're willing to share, what type of writing would you do about BotW? I can't conceptualize what type of thing that might be.

DD is playing TotK at the moment. She says BotW is much more relaxing than TotK. I keep hearing, "No, no, no, no, no. Don't die, don't die, don't die…"

It's funny thinking about the term switching gears specifically, because it's something that I realized in the past that I had an exceptionally difficult time doing. When I was doing one thing, it was very hard for me to move on to something else. But in the past, it was really just an issue of focus - not anxiety. Anxiety has basically forced me to learn how to deal with it, which is pretty easy at this point since there's an immediate physical stress response that crops up when I need to take a step back.

Disassociation is something that I never really dealt with because, by and large, I never really viewed anything that I went through as traumatic. It was annoying, for sure, and I often sought refuge in isolation, but I recall many times people expressing sympathy for me going through being caught in the middle of a bitter feud between my parents and my response was just a shrug. It wasn't something that affected me, so why should I care? The only things that really did affect me were the things I hadn't figured out yet, i.e. the seeds of anxiety, and had yet to become a serious problem.

And you are definitely on the mark about my feelings on being alone. It's hard to understand that extremely introverted people have social needs, too. And just because I prefer to spend my time doing stuff by myself doesn't mean that I don't want social support. This was a pretty hard lesson for me to learn, and an even harder one to actually accept.

I feel I can also relate to how this would result in a person becoming overgiving to others, harboring that deep seed of hope that you will eventually get that same support back in kind. I am grateful that, despite having incredibly sub-par parents, to have been largely raised and taught the ways of life by a wonderful man. You strike me as the sort of person who has probably seen Avatar: The Last Airbender before; my grandfather is for all intents and purposes Uncle Iroh. I learned from him that if I see the opportunity to do the right thing, I do it for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. I shouldn't expect anything in return or even gratitude. It's a very altruistic outlook, but it kind of doubles down on that feeling that nobody else is really going to ever help me as much as I need it.

I *thankfully* do not experience difficulty falling or staying asleep, due mostly to the fact that I do rotating shiftwork for a living. 7 12-hour days followed by a week off, then 7 12-hour night shifts followed by another week off and repeat. I'm perpetually tired, but usually not due to not being able to sleep when I try. I did look into TRE and my immediate takeaway was that it reminded me of the "comfort rocking" a lot of people with autism or severe trauma often do (I presume you know what I'm talking about). I have found a similar release with a rowing machine that my girlfriend bought and never uses: the repetetive motion is soothing and the resistance of the machine is just enough to release energy without being overly strenuous.

I think you and I are both of that right type of personality where a conversation just keeps growing because one of us will type up a few things and we just naturally want to respond to absolutely everything to leave no point unaddressed. And then on top of that I'm like, "hell, I've been talking about myself this whole time! Tell me how your week has been going, too." So put us together and it just turns into a great wall of text. Not that I'm complaining - I think I mentioned earlier that a lot of things have come up here that have been points that I took directly back to my therapist.

The writing I do about games just tends to be analyzing them from a design standpoint: what makes them fun, what makes them work, what can be improved upon. The most recent thing I wrote is probably a pretty good example: Abuse My Nipples Dot Biz

(Yes, that really is my domain name. abusemynipples.com was already taken)

At this juncture, I have 4 shrines and about 700 pieces of golden poop left to find. I'd like to at least take care of that first one... not so sure about the second >.>

Anyway, thank you as always for taking the time to talk with me and help me through my problems. I hope your week has been going well, and that your daughter (?) is enjoying Tears of the Kingdom <3