[sunrise]

After learning a lot more about ADHD, I'm thinking I don't have it after all. But I've been treated for ADHD and it really helps me. Behavioral strategies that help with ADHD are very helpful to me. Meds that help with ADHD are very helpful also. If I have the symptoms of ADHD and ADHD treatments help me, maybe it doesn't really matter what this condition I have is called? I'm getting helpful treatment and growing more successful in managing my symptoms, so maybe that's enough and it doesn't matter what it's called?

Can anyone else relate?

[AniManiac]

I've heard it said more than once by mental health professionals that if you respond well to ADHD treatments, then you probably have ADHD. In fact, they say that if the meds work, that's the best indicator that you really do have it.

Of course, I'm sure there are other perspectives, and I agree - treatment that helps you is more important than labels (unless the labels help you get the treatment you need!)

[venusss]

Originally Posted by AniManiac

I've heard it said more than once by mental health professionals that if you respond well to ADHD treatments, then you probably have ADHD. In fact, they say that if the meds work, that's the best indicator that you really do have it.

and I heard that it was amphetamines that won the WWII, because of the amounts pilots consumed of them.

In fact, same stimulants as are used for ADHD are used in militaries today still and they "work". Does not mean they are bunch of ADHDers, but that amphetamines are performance enhancers.

(yes, I know here it's mostly used to reduce a need of sleep.... but it is a performance enhancers that works nevertheless).

so if it works for you and are aware of the risks (stimulants aren't good for you and I say this as somebody who consumes insane amounts of caffeine, energy drinks and other over-the-counter stuff), great for you.

[sunrise]

Thanks, VenusHalley and AniManiac.

I think "if a stimulant helps you then you must have ADHD" is a myth, and I find it kind of irresponsible that mental health professionals would be saying that. Stimulants would help people having impaired cognitive symptoms due to a variety of causes. For example, cognition is impaired if a person is sleep-deprived, and stimulants will help one's thinking in that case, in addition to helping one stay awake. Another example--College students take stimulants to boost cognitive performance and thereby improve test scores. Another example--people with depression will sometimes have impaired cognition and stimulants will help with this symptom. There are lots of reasons for cognitive impairment and stimulants will help quite a few of them.

Part of what I struggle with is that for ADHD, it is deemed OK to treat it with stimulants. But for a number of other cognitive impairments, it is not deemed OK. It is just too bad if you have this problem and sorry there is no treatment available. While help is just one prescription away... There seems an unfairness about it. People with ADHD are special and deserve treatment. Others do not. Or so the thinking seems to go. Maybe that is why I have received an ADHD diagnosis, because without it, I could not be prescribed medications that would help.

I have 3 treatments for ADHD: a stimulant, a non-stimulant (Wellbutrin), and behavioral techniques. I found a great paper on "Development of a Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Adult ADHD" and just knew when I read it that the techniques it described would be helpful to me. I'm trying some of them on my own, and next week in therapy, my therapist is going to help me with a behavioral strategy very similar to one outlined in this paper. I've whittled down my Wellbutrin prescription to almost nothing (75-100 mg/day) and find this amount adequate. I found it almost impossible to function in certain ways with no Wellbutrin, which I tried for 2 months. Some of the ADHD type symptoms were just impossible to overcome. So I went back on very low dose and that has really helped. I take the stimulant (Vyvanse) as needed, and do a lot better with it than not, but I am hoping that with continued effort at behavioral therapy, I might be able to completely eliminate this. When I tried no Wellbutrin or stimulant for 2 months and had difficulties, my prescriber suggested I take stimulant only, but the help this gives, which is significant, is quite different from having some Wellbutrin on board. The Vyvanse is indeed helpful, but by itself is not quite what I am looking for.

Originally Posted by AniManiac

I agree - treatment that helps you is more important than labels (unless the labels help you get the treatment you need!

I guess this is what it boils down to. Thanks.

"Development of a Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Adult ADHD"
http://guilfordjournals.com/doi/pdf/...hd.2011.19.1.7

[AniManiac]

I'm not saying the "if a stimulant helps you must have ADHD" thing is true - it's just something I've heard more than once from multiple doctors. As for the degree to which it's "right" for people with different kinds of cognitive limitations to get different treatments - that's out of my league!

You're both correct that lots of people use ADHD meds as performance enhancers. And it's also true that everyone has attention deficits - just not all to the same degree.

The main difference (according to the sources I can find) in reactions to stimulants for people with ADHD versus not, is whether the meds are 1) calming (and focusing), or 2) the opposite - which can include sleep loss and euphoria. Basically it's whether your body gets stimulated versus calmed at a normal therapeutic dose.

Speaking only for myself, I don't get a "stimulated" feeling from ADD meds, and it does not trigger hypo/mania as might happen otherwise for someone who is bipolar. I have never lost sleep, felt euphoric or gotten energetic from the meds - it's exactly the opposite! I feel calmer, I slow down, and I actually sleep better. My insomnia problems (dating back to early childhood) ended when I started taking meds for ADD - which sounds counterintuitive, but makes sense given the calming effect. Obviously this is an n of 1, and others have different experiences.

Thanks also for including the link for the CBT article. I had actually tried all of the strategies that are mentioned in the article independently with very limited success. I actually found them incredibly frustrating (in the "that's easy for you to say" category) because they didn't help much no matter how hard I tried. Until I started stimulants, at which point I could actually use those strategies.

There are also non-stimulant treatments - mainly Strattera but also Wellbutrin. At a high dose of Wellbutrin, I was able to get by alright for a little while without ADD meds, but it was not very effective for me and basically didn't last. If you're concerned about taking stimulants but think there could be some ADHD issues, then you could try Strattera and see how that works.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by AniManiac

As for the degree to which it's "right" for people with different kinds of cognitive limitations to get different treatments - that's out of my league!

I know--that's kind of a philosophical question. I just wonder about it sometimes.

If you're concerned about taking stimulants but think there could be some ADHD issues, then you could try Strattera and see how that works.

I already take Wellbutrin for ADHD and I don't think you're supposed to take that with Strattera. You can take Wellbutrin or Strattera with a stimulant, but not Wellbutrin with Strattera. I'm OK with the Wellbutrin, though. I've gotten down to quite low with that. It has been a good med for me.

I took my higher dose of Vyvanse yesterday. Wow that was great. I am always striving toward abstaining from these meds and rarely take the higher dose. I just take nothing or take the lower dose. But zounds that was good yesterday! So functional... Back to lower dose today. Tomorrow the plan is nothing--taking a break.

[-jimi-]

Stimulants help me ignore the pain and fatigue from my lupus. Now I happen to have ADD as well, but I know people with very treatment resistant depression that were helped by stimulants. Also the strategies I learned for AS/ADD I taught to some NTs with other types of issues with success, because a lot can be applied to a wide range of issues. Sometimes "just" depression makes it hard to start things and organize and all that, and then an ADD strategy can help.

Originally Posted by AniManiac

I'm not saying the "if a stimulant helps you must have ADHD" thing is true - it's just something I've heard more than once from multiple doctors.
The main difference (according to the sources I can find) in reactions to stimulants for people with ADHD versus not, is whether the meds are 1) calming (and focusing), or 2) the opposite - which can include sleep loss and euphoria. Basically it's whether your body gets stimulated versus calmed at a normal therapeutic dose.
Speaking only for myself, I don't get a "stimulated" feeling from ADD meds, and it does not trigger hypo/mania as might happen otherwise for someone who is bipolar. I have never lost sleep, felt euphoric or gotten energetic from the meds - it's exactly the opposite! I feel calmer, I slow down, and I actually sleep better...

At a quick glance, the first is what might seem to be my psych's perspective. BUT. It is in concert with the second. It's not "help" in the same way as, for lack of a better term, the "general public" is "helped" by them. It's in the calming/focusing kind of help, not the "wow, I can stay up and study all night" kind of "help". Considerably different things.

Speaking for myself, I can say the same things as the last paragraph. The sleep thing was particulary surprising. Not only better, but earlier! The only alteration, a nuance really, that I'd make for my experience is that I don't "slow down" so much as... there is less chatter in my head. I do get more done (not as in tons, or in any kind of hypo way) not because I have more energy, but because I am not floating around, pulled in every direction, essentially spinning in a useless circle.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

I don't "slow down" so much as... there is less chatter in my head. I do get more done (not as in tons, or in any kind of hypo way) not because I have more energy, but because I am not floating around, pulled in every direction, essentially spinning in a useless circle.

Yes, this! I'm glad you're finding the meds helpful, IZ. The reduction in chatter and getting to sleep easier/earlier are pretty fantastic and were totally unexpected for me.

I usually feel that when the meds help you in ways you didn't expect, then that's a sign that they're a useful treatment (not a placebo). When I go looking, I often find that those unexpected benefits were the reduction of symptoms that aren't often discussed, so I didn't know they were symptoms. It has worked that way for me with both bipolar and ADD meds.

[AmICrazyOrWhat86NY]

I think I have ADHD but my doctor says I have anxiety and depression

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by AmICrazyOrWhat86NY

I think I have ADHD but my doctor says I have anxiety and depression

Are treatments for anxiety an depression helping you?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by AniManiac

The main difference (according to the sources I can find) in reactions to stimulants for people with ADHD versus not, is whether the meds are 1) calming (and focusing), or 2) the opposite - which can include sleep loss and euphoria. Basically it's whether your body gets stimulated versus calmed at a normal therapeutic dose.

Even in people with ADHD, a common side effect of stimulants is insomnia. So I don't think it's as simple as calming vs. stimulating. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. Both my prescriber and pharmacist told me not to take the stimulants too late in the day, so they are aware of the potential insomnia problem. I don't think my ADHD meds either calm or stimulate me. I know I don't get euphoric. They help me be not so distractible. Without them, every stimulus is equally salient. They help me be able to settle down and stick with what I'm doing. They help me be able to focus. They help me find motivation to start something, and motivation to finish.

Originally Posted by jimitherat

I know people with very treatment resistant depression that were helped by stimulants.

Yes, stimulants are very effective for depression. It is really good to hear they have helped you with lupus.