I'm pretty fed up.

I'm frustrated with all these assumptions I constantly run into:

That I'm a stuck up jackass, that I just want to start a fight, that I'm a know-it-all, that I need approval and to be told I'm right all the time [honestly, I'm right maybe a third of the time, one third I'm kinda on the right track, the other third i am just flat out wrong].

That I'm careless and rude. That I try to appropriate conversations.
I have really really absolutely HAD IT with other people telling me what my motivations are or what I mean when I say something, and either having anger toward me or just shutting me down right out based on these completely incorrect ideas... that I am not allowed to correct.
Because, of course, I just want to start an argument.

I can't say anything at this point- I can't correct misinformation, even if it's harmful, i can't disagree with anyone, i can't even have a unique opinion.

Unless it is said with a sugar plum smile, a sweet voice, and is, actually, exactly what everyone else wants to hear? I'm pretty much instantly demonized to some degree.

I don't just happen to have a lot of unique view points, I actually just want to be a jerk and start fights.

I don't actually know anything about anything, I'm making things up to "sound smart".

When I don't put an extra super dollop of niceness on whatever I'm saying, people make the assumption I'm being mean. WHY? If it's neutral, why are we assuming I'm trying to be hurtful? WHY can't anyone ever assume I'm just being neutral?

I have difficulty navigating social situations, I have difficulties smiling at people automatically, remembering that I should say hi to them, catering everything I say to each and every specific situation. Sometimes I say things that are more driven by logic than emotion but... OMG sometimes it is actually the other way around. A lot of this has to do with how I am because I'm autistic, yeah. And I don't use that as an excuse, but things are difficult to keep together sometime.

But when I have these difficulties, I am a big freaking asshole. I'm actually often finding that i have to FIGHT for a chance to apologize for something I am not even certain I've done.

Anyone else has these difficulties because of X, Y, Z...?

"Oh, they are just having a rough time".

Me? I can't have 'rough time'.

I just like making people feel bad. Apparently.

ALSO?

I'm going to be told the motivation for this little rant is something OTHER than having repeated social difficulties [mostly online but also off] and specificalluy having one today that just kind of put me over the top.

IT'S NOT.

People don't understand me, but think they do and hate me for thing they think they know. And when people are telling me that I am not being forthright about my motivations but that THEY actually know what my TRUE motivations are?

It's pretty much calling me a liar or saying I'm disingenuous.

By the way? That's pretty much the deepest cut you can make in me. Deeper than another person lying to ME.

Just so everyone knows now.
Well, if anyone actually believes it.
I'm probably just trying to create drama or something, right?
[hint, no actually crying and upset. OH WAIT CAN THAT BE TRUE?]

[unaluna]

(((Josie))) you sound a lot like me when i was still out in the world. I always thought you were pretty smart from your posts here. Anyway just wanted to say i understand and i knew there was something i liked about you

[-jimi-]

I've been told my entire life what I feel and think. I was and still am not allowed to say any different.

If someone hurts me I fake it, because everyone knows how freakishly callous I am so I can't have human feelings.

I have never mattered, only those others, which I obviously hurt by my mere existence.

So yea, kinda know the deal. I'm sorry and it sux but we will never be accepted as real live people. Not to 100 %. No matter what anyone says.

[phaset]

Yup, all the time. I have a very hard time apologizing too.

I wish I could have a job where I work alone on what I want.

I have seen your posts and you seem knowledgeable and that you have worthwhile opinions. Maybe people feel you are trying too hard to push your knowledge and opinions on them. Personally I am pretty standoffish and passive in social situations. If I get drawn into getting passionate and heated about something sometimes I can offend people or annoy people - mostly about religion (there is no god and I think your religious practices are bulls**t), politics (I think republicans are greedy, narrow-minded scumbags), denial-of-facts (like if you deny evolution or don't want to vaccinate your children or believe herbal remedies are more effective than modern medicine for example).

I'm not saying don't speak your opinions loud and proud if you want to... I'm just saying that people get annoyed and angry if you call them out on their knowledge/opinion being totally bogus and break down the reasons why. Even if you're right it doesn't really matter, because you can't change their mind with sweet, beautiful logic that totally disproves them. By all means do whatever you want, but I think if you are less confrontational about your disagreements with peoples ideas/attitudes/beliefs/etc. then your problem will be solved.

If you feel compelled to speak out then go for it, but people aren't going to be receptive to it and will resent you for it. Personally I am pretty passive and non-confrontational unless I get pushed to my limit. I have a lot of opinions about why I think the things people believe/value/care about/whatever are ridiculous and harmful to society and generally stupid but for better of worse I just keep them to myself for the most part. Then again I'm also an angry dysfunctional recluse so maybe I'd be better of with your attitude or voicing my thoughts and opinions.

Bottom line is that if you call people out all the time on the stuff they say (even if it's the stupidest ****ing thing you could imagine) they aren't going to like you and you have to accept that.

[artyaspie]

I like your posts, you are sincere and believe in what you say which is all that matters to me - but then I am not normal Also often find myself socially in the land of foot-in-mouth, where did that ****storm come from! Sadly found that honesty is often punished.

Originally Posted by nowheretohide

Bottom line is that if you call people out all the time on the stuff they say (even if it's the stupidest ****ing thing you could imagine) they aren't going to like you and you have to accept that.

...i get this i dont think everyone has to like me i dont expect everyone to like me
i actually often say that if everyone liked me i would probably be doing something wrong
i just don't think it [calling people out] is something i do -all- the time
or even most of the time

if someone were to look at the whole of my posting they might actually see that the majority of it is supportive

maybe im just delusional and thinking im supportive but im actually just picking fights everytime i post

the idea that people have that this onedimensional picture of me that im soley confrontational is one of the actual problems that causes me such distress

since it seems there is nothing i can do about that and not even changing my behavior [which I've actively attempted to do the past several months to no apparent avail] I just end up feeling alienated frustrated and generally like I as a person am completely undesirable
there is something inherently wrong with me

particularly in a community that is centered around support and at a time when i could really use support none of this is making sense

it is something im not understanding or doing right but something that no one will be able to explain because i have already made a concerted effort to address the things that people tell me are the apparent problems

people tell me i have to try harder or something or dont acknowledge my efforts but then dont offer any specifics

but im tired anyway
so
thats fun

[RichardBrooks]

Holy crap can I relate! Except sometimes my capacity for stupid behavior plummets to zero, and I do become the confrontational asshole everyone's accusing me of being. Someone very smart once shared this with me though:

The Paradoxical Commandments

"People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
Love them anyway.

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Do good anyway.

If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies.
Succeed anyway.

The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
Do good anyway.

Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
Be honest and frank anyway.

The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.
Think big anyway.

People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.
Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
Build anyway.

People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.
Help people anyway.

Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.
Give the world the best you have anyway.”

― Kent M. Keith, The Silent Revolution: Dynamic Leadership in the Student Council

I wasn't making my comment based on anything you say on here - I haven't read enough of your posts to judge that anyways. I was guessing you meant you were having these problems in real life a lot. I did start my post referring to your postings here so I guess that was misleading - I meant that as a lead in to indicate that I think you have good thoughts/ideas/etc. based on the little I know about you from the forum.

I think this forum is more of a place to express your thoughts, correct false statements, share knowledge etc. than in everyday interactions - my post was more based on in real life problems.

On here as long as the information you are giving is accurate and on topic I think laying out a bunch of knowledge on people is a good thing. And correcting false information is also a good thing because a lot of people take what they read here as fact. Plus a lot of people find posts via google well after the conversation has stopped and use them as advice for their situation so having accurate info is that much more important.

[artyaspie]

Came across this site by googling for solid, supportive information so right on! And needing support always makes me feel so vulnerable I grow spines like a porcupine - paradox is right!

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

...i get this i dont think everyone has to like me i dont expect everyone to like me
i actually often say that if everyone liked me i would probably be doing something wrong
i just don't think it [calling people out] is something i do -all- the time
or even most of the time

if someone were to look at the whole of my posting they might actually see that the majority of it is supportive

maybe im just delusional and thinking im supportive but im actually just picking fights everytime i post

the idea that people have that this onedimensional picture of me that im soley confrontational is one of the actual problems that causes me such distress

since it seems there is nothing i can do about that and not even changing my behavior [which I've actively attempted to do the past several months to no apparent avail] I just end up feeling alienated frustrated and generally like I as a person am completely undesirable
there is something inherently wrong with me

particularly in a community that is centered around support and at a time when i could really use support none of this is making sense

it is something im not understanding or doing right but something that no one will be able to explain because i have already made a concerted effort to address the things that people tell me are the apparent problems

people tell me i have to try harder or something or dont acknowledge my efforts but then dont offer any specifics

but im tired anyway
so
thats fun

Actually, Josie....for what it's worth, I think you're brilliant. And funny as hell. Acerbic, sharp; your personality leeches delightfully from your text and truly, you are a great read.

Don't sweat it if people don't get it.

Wow, your post is sooo true! You hit the nail right on the head. I feel all those things that you describe. People truly hate me because I correct them too. But, what if the stuff they're talking is total rubbish, right? They think I'm an asshole all the time, like I'm some sort of smartass. Also, people really hate it a lot when they've all given up on something "because it's too difficult" and then I come along, attempt the thing and then succeed. Must I fail just because everyone else did? Screw that, right? I remember that used to happen when I was at school, everyone used to fail their math and chemistry exams/tests and then I would get like 95% and they would really hate me so much, and say all sorts of horrible things to me. It's not my problem that they can't do things. You don't see me being all hateful and stuff just because I can't play sports (and BTW I truly suck at sports), so why must they be like that to me?

You have truly shone a light on what goes on in my life too, and I thank you so much for that . I wish I could have had you as a friend at school!

I guess I'm just sick of everyone else expecting me to change myself so they are less uncomfortable. I go through every single day experiencing the world as one big ball of discomfort.

I very very rarely ask people to alter much for me- one of the reasons being that I don't want to have to adjust simple little things about myself, so I think long and hard before asking anyone else to do the same.

Another reason is that when I do make very small requests I often experience backlash and it is just such a demoralizing experience that I don't even know why I ask people to do anything anymore.

But everyone else feels it is constantly ok to attack and request alteration of very basic things about who I am, how I interact with the world. Down to my speech and writing patterns, how I express emotion, how my facial expressions manifest, the modulation of my voice.

I don't know why this is ok.

We should all "be ourselves", but only if it's comfortable for everyone else. :[

Exactly, it's all OK, as long as everybody's happy. I've reached the same point, I ask nobody for anything anymore. Either people just don't do it, they endlessly complain, take a year to do it, or they do a shoddy job of it, and I have to fix it anyway. It's as though nobody today can do any quality work any more in any facet, especially stuff like public services. It's just a 9 to 5 and people spend the day looking at the clock! But, if you point this stuff out to people, then you're a social misfit. I'm getting more and more sick of this half-assed attitude in the world nowadays.

Originally Posted by StbGuy

Exactly, it's all OK, as long as everybody's happy. I've reached the same point, I ask nobody for anything anymore. Either people just don't do it, they endlessly complain, take a year to do it, or they do a shoddy job of it, and I have to fix it anyway. It's as though nobody today can do any quality work any more in any facet, especially stuff like public services. It's just a 9 to 5 and people spend the day looking at the clock! But, if you point this stuff out to people, then you're a social misfit. I'm getting more and more sick of this half-assed attitude in the world nowadays.

I hear what you are saying.
That is frustrating as well.

My issue is more that people are constantly telling me to change integral parts of myself but find it completely intolerable that I ask them to perhaps alter a noise they make or dim a light, etc because it's bothering me in a way that is REALLY hard to explain to people who are not "bothered" by this stuff [see: not just annoying; see also: hurts my brain]. I think it's hard sometimes for people to understand the issues I experience and that's another reason I don't like asking people to make annoying accommodations for me- they don't get it a lot of the time and so assume I'm exaggerating or just mean "you are annoying me STAHP".

I have no idea how to approach or deal with that situation at this point.

Ah, I see yes, sorry, I got a little sidetracked there. Yeah, it is difficult to get people to understand where you're coming from. I don't think they'll ever understand. I've often wondered how another person would cope if they could have my brain for a day, I bet they'd give it back after an hour.

[rosska]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

I hear what you are saying.
That is frustrating as well.

My issue is more that people are constantly telling me to change integral parts of myself but find it completely intolerable that I ask them to perhaps alter a noise they make or dim a light, etc because it's bothering me in a way that is REALLY hard to explain to people who are not "bothered" by this stuff [see: not just annoying; see also: hurts my brain]. I think it's hard sometimes for people to understand the issues I experience and that's another reason I don't like asking people to make annoying accommodations for me- they don't get it a lot of the time and so assume I'm exaggerating or just mean "you are annoying me STAHP".

I have no idea how to approach or deal with that situation at this point.

I sympathise with your position.

My brother and I often get into arguments over the 'little' things. He doesn't understand my needs for sameness and routine, and I don't understand his ability to be spontaneous or drop everything on a whim to go do something else.

When he comes home to visit, he is always telling me I need to 'get out of my shell' more and do things that challenge me. So when he is home, I try to make more of an effort even if I don't enjoy it and don't like what I'm doing because it feels forced and it's not what I want to do.

Yet I've asked him several times to please let me know in advance when he's coming down so I can 'prepare' for it mentally. Every time I do he gets annoyed and tells me that this is his family home too and he doesn't need to make appointments to visit it... He can't seem to grasp that for me, it's a very small request and there are plenty of other things he does on a daily basis when he's home which cause me physical pain (using electric saws and sanders in the garden for example, he loves woodwork in his spare time) that I don't mention because I don't want to try and force him to stop doing something he enjoys for my benefit.

@StbGuy, I often wish that were possible too!

[sukothefox]

I am a self-diagnosed aspie, and people would rather think I am just an asshat. I can totally sympathize with you. Whenever I say something that is frank, true, and realistic, people tell me that it's not good to be honest all the time. I am also sick of that. For example, when it comes to religion, I lack one, and telling them so and why I do lack one is as if their religion was mommy to them. I am not criticizing it because I want to see them suffer. I criticize religion in front of them because I wish they could enjoy the freedom that comes from realizing there is no god. Of course, there are still morals and laws we should follow, but once you become an atheist, you realize that you missed out on a lot of things, all because religion told you they were sinful. It makes me angry that people would rather thank their imaginary friend rather than the real people who did real things for them. They are basically thanking the air, and admiring pure air, instead of the truly amazing abilities humanity has. And to be a propo, air is even more amazing than god. Many people get uncomfortable with the idea of the Bible condoning adultery and misogyny, because they know damn well it is immoral. If I point that out, people will tell me I am disrespectful and callous. Hey, I may be callous, but that doesn't change anything whatsoever. Feelings don't matter when determining what is real and what is not.
I am sorry for prolonging this, but I'd say just be yourself, and accept that honesty is a gift so rare these days. We need more people who like to say the truth. A world in which everyone lies is a world with poor quality relationships. A world without honesty is a world constantly being corrupt.
I haven't encountered the issue of being seen as a showoff because of my knowledge, but I imagine it is frustrating from the way you write things. Being constantly misunderstood and seen in a negative light can be taxing for the mind, and after a while you need to open the bottle and let your feelings be drunk by sympathetic minds.

Originally Posted by sukothefox

...For example, when it comes to religion, I lack one, and telling them so and why I do lack one is as if their religion was mommy to them. I am not criticizing it because I want to see them suffer. I criticize religion in front of them because I wish they could enjoy the freedom that comes from realizing there is no god. Of course, there are still morals and laws we should follow, but once you become an atheist, you realize that you missed out on a lot of things, all because religion told you they were sinful. It makes me angry that people would rather thank their imaginary friend rather than the real people who did real things for them. They are basically thanking the air, and admiring pure air, instead of the truly amazing abilities humanity has. And to be a propo, air is even more amazing than god. Many people get uncomfortable with the idea of the Bible condoning adultery and misogyny, because they know damn well it is immoral. If I point that out, people will tell me I am disrespectful and callous...

SO I mean, I feel this is a different situation all together, really though.

As the saying goes, your freedom to swing your fist ends where my face beings. But to take that one step further, if you are in your own little corner, swatting at the air, why do I give a crap?

Even if there are a bunch of air swatters who are being irresponsible about it and swatting in the middle of a crowded bus, but don't represent the vast majority of air-swatters and if ,say this guy I know Fred over there is doing his own thing, swatting in the corner, away from other peoples faces [including mine] why should I care?

I don't.
It's kind of the same thing with religion.

I'm not actually atheist, but I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I most closely align to agnosticism, but I'm not sure that catches it really for me either.

And I don't want to make this into a religious discussion, because that's not my point. My point is that when I engage in a discussion with an opposing view and it's not with a close friend for the fun of a silly debate, it is for two reasons: either I have a specific point to make because I don't wish it to be assumed that I am saying something i am not actually saying or TWO: I feel that there is some harmful information being proposed as either truth or half-truth... the whole "swinging your fist through the air so it has now reached my face" thing.

Who cares if I am offended by what you are doing or saying- if I am responding to something that offends me and that makes someone yell back at me? Well, I jumped into that.

But if I am correcting misinformation, either about myself or something potentially harmful that is where it gets a bit more difficult for me.

Also- yeah people get upset when you attack a core belief system that they hold. I'm not sure why that is surprising.

[sukothefox]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

SO I mean, I feel this is a different situation all together, really though.

As the saying goes, your freedom to swing your fist ends where my face beings. But to take that one step further, if you are in your own little corner, swatting at the air, why do I give a crap?

Even if there are a bunch of air swatters who are being irresponsible about it and swatting in the middle of a crowded bus, but don't represent the vast majority of air-swatters and if ,say this guy I know Fred over there is doing his own thing, swatting in the corner, away from other peoples faces [including mine] why should I care?

I don't.
It's kind of the same thing with religion.

I'm not actually atheist, but I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I most closely align to agnosticism, but I'm not sure that catches it really for me either.

And I don't want to make this into a religious discussion, because that's not my point. My point is that when I engage in a discussion with an opposing view and it's not with a close friend for the fun of a silly debate, it is for two reasons: either I have a specific point to make because I don't wish it to be assumed that I am saying something i am not actually saying or TWO: I feel that there is some harmful information being proposed as either truth or half-truth... the whole "swinging your fist through the air so it has now reached my face" thing.

Who cares if I am offended by what you are doing or saying- if I am responding to something that offends me and that makes someone yell back at me? Well, I jumped into that.

But if I am correcting misinformation, either about myself or something potentially harmful that is where it gets a bit more difficult for me.

Also- yeah people get upset when you attack a core belief system that they hold. I'm not sure why that is surprising.

Yeah, I agree. If others want to swat the air in their own little corner then fine by me, as long as it doesn't affect me.
I have realized that arguing with friends, even during silly debates as you call them, brings trouble. Sometimes I don't get my point across (as in my last response to your post), and get misunderstood totally, and I find it frustrating to explain myself in a way that is understandable for said people.
And I am not surprised by people getting offended when a core belief is attacked... I was just ranting about how they never understand that the offense that may be taken is less than the pain misinformation can bring.

Originally Posted by sukothefox

Yeah, I agree. If others want to swat the air in their own little corner then fine by me, as long as it doesn't affect me.
I have realized that arguing with friends, even during silly debates as you call them, brings trouble. Sometimes I don't get my point across (as in my last response to your post), and get misunderstood totally, and I find it frustrating to explain myself in a way that is understandable for said people.
And I am not surprised by people getting offended when a core belief is attacked... I was just ranting about how they never understand that the offense that may be taken is less than the pain misinformation can bring.

Mmm...
So, the thing with religion as an example:
it isn't always harmful to believe in things that we may not have evidence for.

It may be harmful for me or you, but it may not be harmful for other people. This is something it took me a while to figure out, and you may not agree- and that's ok. You may agree at some point, or not ever, and that's ok too. I have found in my experience that "truth" does not always invite or intiate or enable the absolute good it should.

Some people are not prepared, or able to embrace a life without religion or without faith in a higher being. That is how they are built, or that is how their life at that time is structured. Whether it be organized religion or something else that we term "faith".

ETA: I'm not actually as yet able to embrace a life where I have a faith in a higher being, personally. There have been times when I have really tried and really attempted to open myself up to it. I haven't been able to. I've wanted to have this faith and this belief, and I can't. And i won't pretend to believe, it doesn't work so the opposite of what I wrote above is true for me.

I'm not declaring one particular set of beliefs here to be "right" or wrong. Some people find their strength in knowing, others in believing. And this is not restricted to discussions of spiritual or religious nature. For a really really long time I had a lot of trouble not just firmly believing that, no matter what, everyone should know the truth about everything. IT'S ONLY RIGHT.

Then, things came up as I got older. Things come in all shades of grey.
My sister does not have a moral compass that is in any way similar to mine and hides things from my parents. Do they deserve to know her private life because she is lying to them? If so, why? She is an adult. Is it my place to tell them simply because it is the truth? What gain would that bring to them or her or me or our family as a whole? ...and what harm would it bring?

You have to weigh these things out, and what i've discovered, for myself, is that it is so much easier to understand when, say, a person is being harmful with misinformation about a pharmaceutical versus about a philosophy or dogma - is it my right to try to take away someone's faith [in anything- a person, a higher power, a leader]?

I'm not sure.

That's not all a speech to tell you what to do or that when you get frustrated or angry that you are wrong, but to present that I think I get that you get frustrated because you feel you want people to have the freedom of life without religion- but have you considered that might not be best for them in their particular point at that particular time?

I'm only using religion as an example, and it's not the point. Also, it's just a question to ponder. I don't know the answer. I can't.

[spacegeek1]

Hi there on this thread.
I'm not pretending that I have any answers to the questions raise, but I do think that speaking up with a more evidence based statement can be very important in certain situations.
For eg. pointing out injustice or hypocrisy to a group/person will give validation to the opposing view.
This has happened in history of the world, where the truth is often hidden.
Victims of bullying those who speak out, will have wanted someone to openly support them, but telling the truth is left to the victim, who nobody listens to, until the actual reality comes to light, hopefully.
The truth (evidence), is worth striving for, and as most scientists know, the'truth' can change.
I guess timing is the issue. I get this wrong, as I'm not good at keeping quiet if I disagree.
This may be a bit off the original point, but if you speak up you are going to ruffle feathers, but for every feather ruffled there will be one which is smoothed.