Undiagnosed Aspergers in brother with psychotic traits

Hi.
Does anyone have any experience of dealing with an adult Aspergic who has never been diagnosed and who also exhibits traits that seem to be Psychotic, controlling and Delusional? I am having extreme difficulties with my brother and do not know how to continue dealing with it.

Hi, welcome to the forums.

My advice, get him to a psychiatrist. I was actually referred because my GP was concerned I may be suffering from psychosis. Turns out, I had Aspergers, DID, and OCD. Apparently the latter two are rather common amongst undiagnosed adults with Aspergers because they form as a kind of coping system to deal with the feelings of isolation and major anxiety. Being on the spectrum also apparently increases the chance of other mental health disorders forming so it's always best to speak to a professional if you have such concerns.

Hi rosska

Thanks for your response. I agree with you that he needs to see a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, my brother will not, or cannot, communicate with me by any means at the moment. Our mother died last year and on the day of her funeral my brother did not speak to me. He couldn't even look me in the eye yet he has since then acted in a quite awful way controlling the situation surrounding her estate and now he won't let me have any of my childhood photographs that are of sentimental value to me. It seems as if he feels it it is his right only to have a link to the past and he seems to want me out of his life and in a way is attempting to re-write his own childhood without me in it. It is the most disturbing behaviour I have ever witnessed in anyone. I feel powerless to do anything about it as he continues to act in this despicable manner. I think part of it is jealousy from childhood but his behaviour goes far beyond that. I am now struggling with depression at being treated in this way.

Thanks rosska. The problem I have is that my brother will not, or cannot, communicate with me my any means. Our mother died last year and on the day of her funeral my brother never spoke to me. He wouldn't even look me in the eye, just staring into space as is normal for him. I was angry and upset with him but he showed no empathy whatsoever and just seemed very cold and controlling. Since then he has tried to control the winding up of her estate and will not let me have any photographs from my childhood as he knows that will upset me. He seems to be trying to re-write history and writing me out of it. I believe he has always been jealous of me but his behaviour goes far beyond normal jealousy. He seems to believe it is is god-given right to inherit everything with no thought or concern for me, his sister, whatsoever. What sort of person behaves this way!? I strongly believe and have some limited evidence that he is a compulsive liar, manipulated my mother into hating me and all his actions seem to fit with those of a psychopath yet he most definitely is Aspergic. The whole situation drags me down. My mother seemed to have similar traits to him and she abused me mentally and emotionally throughout my life for 30 years. I need some help to cope with it all now I can finally admit it to myself.

I'm sorry to hear you're in such an upsetting situation. I lost my father a few years ago and I did really struggle with that. I didn't really speak to anybody for quite a while after the funeral. It can be hard when there is a lot of emotional pressure because I'm not always aware of my own emotions or how to express them when I do understand them. It's easy for people to assume I'm not feeling anything or that I don't care, but that's not what's really happening.

I can understand why the feeling that he's trying to control everything about your mother's estate, or rewriting past events, would be so troubling for you. Is there perhaps somebody that you both know who you could speak to as a sort of intermediary?

I would be hesitant to label somebody as having a form of psychopathy. Interestingly enough, when Hans Asperger's first 'discovered' the disorder, he labelled it as 'Autism Psychopathy'. This was due to our apparent lack of empathy, though over the years many studies have show this fact to be untrue. We do feel empathy, we just don't always express it, or we express it in a way which is different to the way an NT would expect us to. It has also been suggested in recent studies that the two disorders are mutually exclusive in that somebody could not have both disorders because of how different they are.

For example Psychopaths, tend to have a hyper awareness of social cues and use that to manipulate people for their own gain. Whereas those of us with AS tend not to notice most social cues at all, or if we do then we tend to misunderstand them. Further, Psychopaths don't feel remorse, whereas we do. Again, our remorse may not always be apparent, but it is there. I've spent months feeling guilty and upset for things I've said or done which have caused somebody pain without my knowing it at the time.

I'm not sure if that helps you or not? Perhaps, if you're unable to convince your brother to speak with a psychiatrist, it may be an idea for you to speak with one? If nothing else, it would provide you some support in what is understandably a very difficult time.

i think it would be very difficult for anyone, including you OP, to really understand what is going on with your brother without professional input. A differential diagnosis for ASDs is schizophrenia, schizoaffective, or other psychotic disorders, so really it's anyone's guess at this point what is truly going on.

I would be hesitant to place ANY label on him at all unless there is some professional involvement.

I would recommend therapy for yourself and since you haven't disclosed the details of the estate issues [I'm not asking you to], perhaps look into what rights you definitely have or could possibly before things disappear for good. Regardless of any specific mental illness, your brother is likely in distress and from his POV probably just doing exactly what makes sense to him... but that could turn out to be very very painful [as you already know].

You have been so supportive thank you!!

I have had some counselling but it only goes so far. It doesn't solve the very real problems in this situation. Sadly my mother has a lot to answer for leaving her affairs in such a manner as to exclude me from everything. My father will be turning in his grave if he knew what she had done. To ask me to read her Will on her deathbed was the act of an extremely sick and resentful woman. She gave no reason for what she did to me. She left this world wanting me to know that she hated me and she wanted to see my face when I found out everything was to go to my brother, even all family photographs. I think she had many issues in her own life that meant she never could be happy for me or want me to grow into an independent person. She told me six years ago that she was sexually abused as a teenager and it explains much of her behaviour over the years. When I have had any success in life she has resented it. She tried to control me from an early age and seemed to be attempting to continue that from beyond the grave.

My brother has handled all the legalities appallingly and with no compassion for me at all. He fails to see how his behaviour or my mother's actions have torn me apart. The lawyers have indicated to me that he has gone out of his way to hurt me as much as he can and his actions and that of my mother can only be described as vindictive, controlling and somewhat gloating. I am in a state of shock with it all. I am sure Aspergics would be reasonable as far as is possible when told of the hurt caused. Wouldn't an Aspergic want to try to heal wounds even if they didn't quite understand all the emotions involved? My brother is delighting in it though. I feel incredibly sad about the whole situation and cry most days about it. At the moment I see him as an evil person. I never did anything wrong other than grow up but I've been left with all their issues to have to deal with. It is too much.

...It's not clear to me whether you intended to write this as you did but if taken at face value? It's definitely not correct.

I have autism [HFA, not asperger's but similar aspects]. I understand if I am hurting people, I am not vindictive. I am actually one of the most compassionate people I know, but I tend to be logical about it.

Having any kind of ASD does not mean you go out of your way to hurt people or completely misinterpret clear indications that you are hurting someone. Actually, [and this isn't meant to be a generalization but comes from my personal experience so anyone else's may vary]... those on the spectrum tend to be more sensitive to hurting people- they are usually more upset about it, whether they outwardly express that or not.

So often there are social misunderstandings and misinterpretations that those on the spectrum are so keenly aware of their awkwardness they often go out of their way to avoid hurting or upsetting others [in my experience]. There are definitely times when I get frustrated, for example- but that's like any other person.

People on the spectrum experience emotion, all of them. They may have difficulty interpreting implicit signs and signals to varying degree, but if someone is able to be receptive to communication it's not like they can't understand "This hurts" or "you are hurting me".

You may be looking too hard for a reason that could possibly not apply to your brother.

Even if you discovered what exactly was going on with him, that it was some specific mental illness diagnosis, how would that help the actual situation in a productive way?

I have no idea of the legalities involved in your country, but there are clearly some other issues involved that none of us are privy to.

The real way to deal with the will issues would be legally, and you should continue to go to counseling or therapy as clearly there are some very hurt feelings involved.

I'm sorry you are going through this; sometimes we simply can't explain why other people do things. I understand searching for reasons, but sometimes people just aren't very nice- even to family- and even when we find a 'reason' it doesn't really explain the hurt they cause.

You can really only manage how you deal with this hurt you are experiencing. You can't change anyone else.

I'm sorry.

What I meant by "I am sure Aspergics would be reasonable as far as is possible when told of the hurt caused" is that my brother has been told how hurtful his actions have been yet he continues to go out of his way to hurt me even more. He won't even speak to me and be civil and to me that is very odd behaviour from someone. He seems to disappear for weeks and be completely out of contact. This makes me question whether he has Aspergers or whether it is something else that is wrong with him. I feel that if I had a diagnosis in my hand for him it would help me better understand why he acts the way he does. At least that would provide some comfort in place of all the despair and questions I have about him.

I agree with you that sometimes people just aren't very nice, I just don't like to think that that is really all there is to my brother. I suppose some part of me wants to blame his behaviour on a condition rather than his personality.

Ok, then my response is still appropriate. It is not reasonable to assume asperger's [or any ASD] is the cause of someone going out of their way to hurt someone.

The only way for him to get properly diagnosed is for him to seek some kind of help, if he feels it is needed. Otherwise you are really just guessing.

And that is very understandable and seems like a pretty human way to feel. I do understand that feeling; I've had it myself before.

...even if it is "his personality" or some bizarre motivations causing him to behave in a hurtful manner- it is probably not a reflection on you. Keep that in mind. People can do all sorts of hurtful and strange and confusing things, and it is often their internal motivation- not a reflection on your character.

Thanks so much Josie.