Possible AvPd without appearing shy?

So.... I've wondered if I was Avoidant or not for a loooong time. The only thing that doesn't fit me to a T is that I act VERY social and I don't appear shy.

Most of that is an act and learned behaviours that I learned ages ago. As a child and adolescent I was CRAZY shy and withdrawn unless I already knew people and was comfortable enough in the setting. But everyone always told me to change and be more talkative and open... so I learned to do it because I didn't want to get rejected and abandoned. (Also, I have bipolar 2, and I was sick of people telling me sometimes that I talk too much and other days that I seem miserable and stuff... so... I learned how to pretend a lot and my behaviour APPEARS quite consistent now?)

I guess I'm just going to post up the diagnostic criteria and explain how it does or does not fit me. I think I just need to write this all out instead of just thinking about it, so bare with me ok?

• Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection

((I'm a teacher. This may sound like it's social but there is a key difference: my boss and coworkers don't really SEE me working. Just the children. And they get changed every year soooo I never have to worry about rejection from them!))

• Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked

((I can be "friends" with someone for months before I'll ever do anthing with them outside of whatever realm I know them through. I won't even switch numbers, or go beyond "yeah we should do something sometime" until I already know that we're GOOD. I also do not initiate conversations with new people - sometimes this is changed when I'm drunk and/or hypomanic))

• Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed

((This is more of a physical restraint; I can't talk about my preferences when it comes to being physically close with someone. I also don't know how to properly express it when I'm upset and I have a hard time asking for things))

• Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations

((Oh yes, yes I am. Any tiny little sign from the other person and I'm done. I might not SHOW it but I sure as anything am feeling/thinking it.))

• Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy

((I can't dance unless I'm drunk; I intentionally aim to LOSE games so that I don't feel embarrassed; I can't do group sports; I'm unable to go to the gym or any sort of fitness class; As much as I want to, I've been unable to take any sort of "class", when I DO do those sorts of new things I have to have someone I already know with me - and they have to be new at it too, so that we can feel silly together. I can't even go running because I worry about people seeing me! And I think I'll be rubbish at it, so even if I really really want to learn... I can't seem to make myself. Like... I can't even do my OWN birthday celebrations, or get awards, or attend my convocation/graduations when I was younger))

• Views themself as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others

((I'm not socially inept because I am a great pretender, but I definitely know/believe that people will find me annoying or disappointing, I definitely don't think I'm better than anyone and typically view others as being better than me, I think when someone hits on me it's because they're desperate and think I'm an easy target (or I think they're too drunk to know better), etc etc. I think people can like well enough what I present, but once I start acting like ME they're going to be gone))

• Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

((Pretty much already explained this one in regards to all the things I can't seem to do. I could barely even get a pedicure because they would be looking at and touching my feet! I only didn't panic because there was also an old man getting his feet done - and I only went as it was a challenge for something my T wanted me doing.))

Like... they all fit me, except that I've already learned how to fake it - which I did only because I couldn't stand standing out for being shy when I was younger and was trying SO HARD to meet expectations and to just blend in. Whenever I would have had my first hypomanic times is probably what helped me learn this, because then I CAN be quite naturally social and so I spread that behaviour into my everyday behaviour - again, because I couldn't stomach standing our or being noticeable.

Anyway. I guess I was just wondering if anyone else is so good at pretending that it doesn't even appear like there's an issue?

Interesting post Panda! I am of course no expert but out of own experience I can say certainly yes! I see many sides of myself in the way you describe yourself. When I meet people for the first time I am outgoing, smiley and not shy the bit. No problem for me to interact with new people that dont know me beforehand. But when it comes to work and social gathering where you actually try to get friends I am the complete opposite, introverted, not talkative and avoid people as much as possible. Because of this I have no friends and no network. Regarding yourself Panda, what do you do between classes? I imagine being a teacher there is a lot of socialising between classes at the lunchroom, drinking coffee etc...do you participate on this?

I usually eat lunch in my friend's classroom... and most of my breaks I'm usually in my class doing work. I do chat with nearly everyone - but that's sorta cause I think it's how I SHOULD act more so than because I want to. I believe in being polite and friendly, so I stop and say good morning to most everyone. But it's only ever 1:1, if there's a group I tend to go past them. When I'm hypomanic though I will get a lot more outgoing and might spend more time in the staffroom. I only eat in there if my friend wants to eat in there, and I don't tend to talk too much at all when I am.

Never really noticed that since I DO talk to most members of staff. But that's like chit-chat - it is superficial conversation and I'm excellent at it. It's when attention is put on ME that I will flip out. (Like... last year I spontaneously ran the Talent Show. Getting up and talking on stage doesn't bother me - provided it's for the students and not for me. But also I was definitely hypomanic and actually on an anti-depressant that was making THAT worse... so I was on a roll. haha. But people complimenting me afterwards? I was TERRIFIED. I did not want acknowledgement in the slightest.)

I tnink my son has this, as a child he refused to do any sports or anything not forced by the school because he was afraid he might make a mistake or not be good right a way. He would not play catch in the yard even because he was afraid to be seen. We tried to explain that all the kids were learning, but no go. He had a fear of insects and didn't want to go outside. He was on ritalin and we thought it was a side effect, he was in counseling for that. Finally we had a talk about whether he could handle it himself. He seems outgoing thses days, but he isn't really, he has learned to function and not stand out. So I think that sometimes we do just learn to fit in.

I just retired after 30 yrs working for a large utility in the NE. I was shy but fooled everyone. I worked with all men, a couple hundred at my work site. Over my years I became a shop steward. I sat in meetings, defended coworkers ,laughed. Vice presidents of the company know me personally. No one has a clue about my probs.

I can't handle any birthday party or celebration. I can't even handle my own family parties. I used to hide and drink in the garage as I could hear everyone singing HAPPY birthday. Even my son's birthdays were to much. My wife fights with me after every family party. She says I was rude.BTW , I stopped drinking 9 months ago when I retired also lost 45lbs. Of coarse I would not allow a retirement party .

I get that - I always want to hide at celebration-parties. At other parties, where there's no specific reason for it, I'm good. But birthday or other celebrations? I just want to run away. Even when it's not mine - I don't want to be there and if I can get out of going I do.

Although, I like planning kid parties. I think that's the teacher in me though!

A therapist diagnosed me as avoidant and then a psychiatrist came back later and said I wasn't...probably because on the outside I don't seem avoidant. And it would seem impossible to other people that an avoidant could (and would) take the career path I've taken (musician/composer).

I think I'll go through the criteria too...might be helpful. I will also admit that some things have gotten better in the last few years...but I don't know why that would make me suddenly NOT avoidant.

Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
It's difficult for people to see that as I'm a musician (you literally set yourself up for rejection, humiliation, and criticism on almost a daily basis). This only got better as there was less rejection—i.e. I became a better musician. I also learned how to "perform"—i.e. hide mistakes from the audience and control to a certain extent what the audience will hear and take from the experience. But I do avoid making friends and becoming closer to friends...most of my contact with people is superficial.

Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
I won't even approach someone to be friends unless they make the first move or the universe pushes us together—I became friends with this one couple because I stayed in their house for a few days and now I live in their neighborhood and walk over to their house on the weekends. But that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had a time where I needed a place to stay for a few days.

I also can't approach anyone romantically. I used to try, but after the last rejection (2 years ago), I can't do it anymore.

Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
I've shown so much restraint that I haven't even BEEN in an intimate relationship (I'm mid-20's by the way so it's unusual that I haven't at this point). I would not be able to communicate what I want or don't want though....and there's no way I could talk about sex in any way. The other person would pretty much have to guess what I want at this point. I also have a fear of someone seeing me naked or having sex because of—drumroll please—my fear of being shamed or ridiculed because of my body and/or my ignorance/inability when it comes to sex.

It is because of this that I will never be in a romantic relationship...and that's a really big deal to me. That's why I think the personality disorder deserves to be recognized. This has a huge negative impact on my life and prevents me from getting what I want...and not just relationships...

Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
I don't know how to elaborate on this...just that, say I like someone. I start avoiding them (since I already know there's nothing I can do about it anyway) and I know within that there's feelings of inadequacy.

Views themself as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
Well, yes, I do find myself socially inept (or at least not as good as others at it), DEFINITELY unappealing (why else is no one ever attracted to me?), and inferior to others in a lot of areas (though not all).

Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing
Like I said earlier...this really gets in the way of me being able to enjoy life. There's something else (other than a relationship) for 10+ years...and that's to start/be in a rock band. I've been in plenty of other bands/groups, but I can't seem to find people to form a group like that. And my fears of ridicule etc. haven't lessened for singing and playing guitar like they have for playing trumpet (which I would consider my main instrument).

I also can't leave my apartment unless I have a very specific reason (laundry, groceries, etc.), nor could I go someplace or try some new activity by myself. And since I have so few friends...and none really that are my age, I don't usually have someone to take. So my activities are very limited. I tried to go to a jam session a week and a half ago but as soon as I got there, I just drove past because I don't know anybody there and I just couldn't do it...

I don't think I really appear shy in most situations...maybe when it comes to dancing (I also can't dance without being drunk), but how do I not have AvPD when it affects my life so much? It holds me back from getting anything I want and it'll take me at least an extra 10 years more than my peers to accomplish what I want that is SOOOOO easy for "normal" people.

So why does a psychiatrist think I'm not Avoidant anymore? I mean...how dare she?! I feel so much emotional pain knowing that I'll be alone forever and even if for some odd reason someone wants to bother with trying to date me they'll soon run away after finding out that I'm not only not easy, I'm extremely, extremely difficult when it comes to creating emotional and *shudder* physical intimacy.

I had a counselor and a psychologist years and years ago and neither one caught my AvPD. I got 'possible bipolar' from the psych, which my counselor said was nonsense and my counselor didn't diagnose me with anything at all. I, just a few years ago, found a psyhchologist who tested me, then took her time in getting to know me and testing what I would do and what I wouldn't. Then she made her diagnosis. Sometimes you have to find the right person.

I had found the right person...who had said that I had it. On the surface I've gotten better, but I'm good at performing and apparently at manipulating people into seeing me in a more positive light so I don't seem like I have it on the surface. Most of the time I can interact with people...well, at least if I've been pushed into a situation that requires it...or I haven't talked to another person in so long that I have to (talk to another person—any person). But it's on a superficial level...right now I spend about 90%-95% of my time by myself which is way too much for me.

I think a lot of stuff for me is very superficial too IATE. Like, I can tell people a lot of things that are going on in my life, and give all appearances of trusting that person..... but I don't actually trust them at all, and I just seem to wait for the time when they decide that I'm not worth the effort and leave. Until that time, I tell them things and I WANT to trust them... but I don't. I can DO all the things that I am supposed to do, and so for the other person it might even be a great relationship of whatever sort... but for me? It's not... I'm just waiting and trying to make the most of what I think is the best I will ever have or deserve. I don't even know if that makes sense.