[spiritual_emergency]

One of my children may have bipolar disorder. We don't yet know yet if that's the case because during the time frame when their behavior was out of the ordinary, they were also using a great deal of marijuana. They're now off the marijuana and we are no longer seeing the same extremes in behavior but while they were smoking it on a regular basis, their behavior was consistent with a manic episode: Risky behavior, over-spending, over-sexualized, numerous lies, jobs lost, friendships lost, poor decision making, etc.

Now, they're in the clean-up phase and I'm hopeful those of you who have also been there can provide some insights into how family and friends can best deal with and support someone through that process. As but a few examples:

- They have had difficulty remembering all the details of that period of time. Should we "fill in the gaps" for them or simply wait with the assumption that their memory of these events/actions will return?

- During that time frame a great deal of damage was done. How should family and friends deal with this? How can we hold them responsible for what did occur while also recognizing they weren't capable of making responsible decisions at that time? It would be impossible to pretend that what happened didn't happen but how do we go about cleaning up the mess? For example, during this time frame they either borrowed money from people they couldn't pay back or, in some cases, stole it. Should those around them "forgive the debt" in recognition of the fact that they were not grounded in reality at that time? Or would part of their recovery process include a full list of acknowledging their "transgressions" as coupled with an expectation that they should make full restitution?

- They are currently in a stage where they are feeling a great deal of remorse, shame, guilt, etc. Obviously this is depression but it's difficult to know if it's related to an underlying disorder or it's a natural response to life circumstances. They are on anti-depressant medication. Do you have any suggestions for how we can help them move forward in this area?

- Those around them are also wrestling with feelings of anger, blame, betrayal, etc. In your own experience, should this be shared and if so, what's the best way to do so? Or maybe you would suggest it shouldn't be shared at all as it would only overburden them at this time.

If you have any further thoughts or suggestions I'd be open to hearing them.

~ Namaste

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[amaviena]

Originally Posted by spiritual_emergency

One of my children may have bipolar disorder. We don't yet know yet if that's the case because during the time frame when their behavior was out of the ordinary, they were also using a great deal of marijuana. They're now off the marijuana and we are no longer seeing the same extremes in behavior but while they were smoking it on a regular basis, their behavior was consistent with a manic episode: Risky behavior, over-spending, over-sexualized, numerous lies, jobs lost, friendships lost, poor decision making, etc.

Now, they're in the clean-up phase and I'm hopeful those of you who have also been there can provide some insights into how family and friends can best deal with and support someone through that process. As but a few examples:

- They have had difficulty remembering all the details of that period of time. Should we "fill in the gaps" for them or simply wait with the assumption that their memory of these events/actions will return?

- During that time frame a great deal of damage was done. How should family and friends deal with this? How can we hold them responsible for what did occur while also recognizing they weren't capable of making responsible decisions at that time? It would be impossible to pretend that what happened didn't happen but how do we go about cleaning up the mess? For example, during this time frame they either borrowed money from people they couldn't pay back or, in some cases, stole it. Should those around them "forgive the debt" in recognition of the fact that they were not grounded in reality at that time? Or would part of their recovery process include a full list of acknowledging their "transgressions" as coupled with an expectation that they should make full restitution?

- They are currently in a stage where they are feeling a great deal of remorse, shame, guilt, etc. Obviously this is depression but it's difficult to know if it's related to an underlying disorder or it's a natural response to life circumstances. They are on anti-depressant medication. Do you have any suggestions for how we can help them move forward in this area?

- Those around them are also wrestling with feelings of anger, blame, betrayal, etc. In your own experience, should this be shared and if so, what's the best way to do so? Or maybe you would suggest it shouldn't be shared at all as it would only overburden them at this time.

If you have any further thoughts or suggestions I'd be open to hearing them.

~ Namaste

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If it were me, and it has been, I wouldn't want to be punished for my transgressions. I believe that paying back the money they borrowed would nearly translate to "Bipolar is bad. You're bad." not "You're sick. How can we get better? What are the steps you are going to take to help clean up your world?" To know that you did something wrong, but because you are ill and establish a plan of action to pick up the pieces and make a whole person.

If you or others are feeling negatively about what's happened, approach it with the utmost love and understanding. No one deserves to be punished for something they didn't ask for and can't control.

Have them journal. Chart their moods. Learn to recognize the things that make them sick. READ. I have workbooks. Interactive works best with me because I'm still young.

Make sure they aren't ashamed. Comfort them. "You have a serious mental illness" is a big blow.

Watch "Secret Life of the Manic Depressive" with Stephen Fry. Check out the previous post by paddy. It will help everyone understand just hwo serious this is and it helped me accept it after years of denial.

Don't let them get away with these "transgressions," but help them to understand what's happened. Remember the behavior IS the illness, but we're not identified by our illnesses. Bad=bad.

Journaling and keeping notes will help them with memory. If they still need your help, inteject then. Be open.

Remeber, bipolar is most often times genetic. Don't let your other children forget that they need to watch out for signs of severe illness and to protect and love each other. Your family and friends are your best assets and will stay with you when the world won't.

[Nikki_busymind]

Hello there

What a supportive person you are! That is one lucky child.

You've not mentioned age? Can I safely assume its an older teenager?

Firstly, this behaviour is dangerous. Using drugs to help the moods is typical of someone with BP. Have you been to referred to a psychiatrist at all? Sounds like a proper evaluation should be conduted, a management plan drawn up and a change in meds is required. AD's can worsen mania if they're taken with a complementy mood stabiliser.

I wish to disagree with the last post. Although this person is obviously not dealing with things well, there does need to be some accountability. Which is why, I would suggest getting properly evaluation and forming a treatment plan first. However, letting things ride out because of suspected BP isn't the best way to handle things. Talk about being given a free pass! BP or not, a person needs to know what they're doing is wrong and needs to be empowered to correct those things. For example, if money was blown or borrowed, it needs to be repayed. Setting up a payment plan will encourage the person to deal with the aftermath, make amends and feel in control again. You can tell everyone around not to lend money, or give access to the car keys or whatever, or you'll only be able to create so much of a safe haven for the person. They need to know that there are repurcussions to their behaviour. Afterall, if they stole things from a shop, its not too likely they'd be let off, rather you'd seek to find a compromise.

Its not the person's fault that their behaviour has been erratic. It is responsibilty though to work through what's been created in the aftermath. It is your responsibility to ensure that the correct medical support is provided.

I'm a big advocate for 'tracking' moods. Try moodtracker.com - if the person won't use it themselves, do it yourself. You'll be able to plot the sleepless nights, moods and hopefully identify precussors to a major mood swing. Having a visual on moods and behaviours will make you feel more aware, and hopefully make it easier to speak to someone in the medical profession about it. If things don't change soon, the person will be vulnerable to more rapid mood changes, thus making it harder for you to get help sooner.

Have you read, Bipolar for Dummies? Or there's An Unquiet Mind by Dr Kay Jamison. You need to read whatever you can get your hands on, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have. See if you can have the person read about it as well. Its scary having all these racing thoughts, and feeling out of control, they need to be self aware.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps and some of it is relevant.

Take care of yourself

[spiritual_emergency]

Much thanks for your response Amanda. I should probably emphasize we don't yet know if bipolar disorder is something they are suffering with. That may be the case but we'll need to allow some time to observe if the same sort of behaviors occur in the absence of marijuana. It's possible they have bipolar disorder (or something else) and were using marijuana as a form of self-medication. It's also possible that the marijuana was responsible for producing the mania and any ensuing depression is a natural result of having made some detrimental choices in their life.

Meantime, one of the things they have done is to investigate some marijuana withdrawal support information, one of which is a 12-Step Program similar to that offered by Alcoholics Anonymous. Two of those steps are:

• Made a list of all persons who were harmed and become willing to make amends to them.

• Made direct amends wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Would the same apply to someone who had undergone a manic episode attributed to bipolar disorder? I don't know. Within the context of addiction/dependency recovery I imagine the act of making amends serves to not only bring some measure of relief to the person who was harmed, it also allows the individual in recovery to remove a burden of guilt by "making right".

I think this could be beneficial even if it is determined they do have bipolar disorder but I'm having some difficulty determining exactly where the lines of responsibility should be drawn; it seems to be a very fine line. Thus far, we've tended to go with the idea that even if they could not be responsible for their behavior at that time, they are responsible for making right (to the best of their abilities) and for also taking responsibility to try to prevent the same from happening again.

In their case, that includes abstaining from marijuana and other forms of recreational drugs. It might also include recognizing they may be prone to manic episodes, possibly due to a biochemical cause or a sensitivity to specific drugs (i.e. even prescription drugs can produce manic episodes in some individuals).

Meantime, I'm also not sure if making that list is something they could or should do at this time. They do seem to be feeling badly enough as it is and actually seeing the results of their actions in black and white before them likely would not help them feel better. It may be that this action would be appropriate at some point in time, but not yet.

At any rate, it would be helpful to hear more from others who have experienced manic episodes -- either personally, or in a friend or family member. I don't expect there is any "perfect answer" but it might help us round out our own thoughts on the matter and come up with a plan for dealing with this aspect of their experience even if we don't yet know the exact cause.

~ Namaste

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[amaviena]

Seems like you have your head on straight and know what's going on.
Never stop being active in their lives.
You love them so much it oozes out of your words.

[spiritual_emergency]

Seems like you have your head on straight and know what's going on.

That's a statement I could agree with.

Never stop being active in their lives.

No, I don't think that would be possible.

You love them so much it oozes out of your words.

Thank you. I do love them very much. More to the point, they know that too.

~ Namaste

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[spiritual_emergency]

Nicky busymind: You've not mentioned age? Can I safely assume its an older teenager?

Young adult. They began to experiment with marijuana when they left home to pursue secondary studies. It tends to be a common activity and widely available within that age group.

Have you been to referred to a psychiatrist at all?

Yes, they are working with professionals: a therapist, psychiatrist and GP. As noted above, it's too early to make a diagnosis of bipolar or anything else although marijuana use undoubtedly serves to trigger mania in them. Now that they're free and clear of marijuana, we need to allow a period of time to see what sort of behaviors are "naturally" occurring. But we're also at a point where we need to be developing goals and moving forward, hence my curiosity about "making amends".

I'm still not certain what approach would be best -- I'm thinking, ideally, the process of making amends should be self-initiated but I also I think it's important for us, as family members to determine our own expectations in that area since that can impact our relationship with them, which, in turn, may impede or assist their own recovery.

I'm a big advocate for 'tracking' moods. Try moodtracker.com - if the person won't use it themselves, do it yourself.

A few weeks ago a promo was offered via this site on what I'm assuming is some similar software -- Optimism. We purchased a copy and have begun using it. One feature we've found helpful is it allows the user to personalize some "moods" or "triggers" as opposed to simply drawing on a stock set of responses.

Have you read, Bipolar for Dummies? Or there's An Unquiet Mind by Dr Kay Jamison. You need to read whatever you can get your hands on, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have. See if you can have the person read about it as well. Its scary having all these racing thoughts, and feeling out of control, they need to be self aware.

I'm fairly familiar with psychotic states of consciousness, depression, and trauma recovery. Mania is new to me so that's an area I've needed to expand my knowledge of. As for them... they're doing some explorations of their own but we don't have an "official diagnosis" at this time so there's several tracks we're exploring.

Much thanks for your response.

~ Namaste

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[Nikki_busymind]

I'm still not certain what approach would be best -- I'm thinking, ideally, the process of making amends should be self-initiated but I also I think it's important for us, as family members to determine our own expectations in that area since that can impact our relationship with them, which, in turn, may impede or assist their own recovery.

I'm not sure that you'll be able to rely on self initiated recognition and acknowldgment for all of the wrong doings. For example, me personally, often some behaviours I've exhibited are easily justifiable. Whilst on the whole I can feel remorse (when I'm feeling low), I can also justify some of the behaviours. When I was initially diagnosed, I put some of the behaviours down to the need to rebel. I got drunk, drove into the city, partied all night and then drove home at 6.30am. Its much easier to shift responsibility, then admit what I did was bl+dy dangerous and stupid and put everyone else's lives on the road at risk that night. Of course, I'm much older than your child, but the reality is, your child needs boundaries and to learn accountability whether they have BP or not. Which was why I suggested the implementation of payment plans for money and facing the people they have wronged. Not in a public hanging sort of way, but rather an opportunity to regain control over situations that occured because of a lack of control. My husband will talk through with me some of my murkier incidents - it further reinforces that meds aren't working or that there is something else going on. He identifies mood shifts before I do because we work together. Its hard for me in the cold light of day to objectively analyse my behaviour, which is why people with BP must rely heavily on the observations of others. So, regardless of BP or not, in answer to your query that prompted you to post here, I would strongly recommend informing the young adult of exhibited behaviours, encouraging ownership and forging paths through it. They need to feel empowered and not ashamed.

Good luck!

[spiritual_emergency]

Nicky busymind: the reality is, your child needs boundaries and to learn accountability whether they have BP or not. Which was why I suggested the implementation of payment plans for money and facing the people they have wronged. Not in a public hanging sort of way, but rather an opportunity to regain control over situations that occured because of a lack of control. ... So, regardless of BP or not, in answer to your query that prompted you to post here, I would strongly recommend informing the young adult of exhibited behaviours, encouraging ownership and forging paths through it. They need to feel empowered and not ashamed.

That is the route that appeals most to me. In the long run, it seems to be the only option that might allow them to "disown" any shame they might otherwise have to carry. All of us have probably known the experience of doing something we regretted doing and then, the relief of making it right, even if we felt badly during that process.

My current hesitation is not quite knowing how to approach that situation. We have shifted into a more goal-oriented position at this point though, so sitting down and talking through some of these ideas might be where we start. We do have some firm expectations in regard to their own behavior (i.e., marijuana use of any degree cannot be tolerated) but we've not broached the topic further simply because there were other priorities that had to be addressed.

He identifies mood shifts before I do because we work together. Its hard for me in the cold light of day to objectively analyse my behaviour, which is why people with BP must rely heavily on the observations of others.

Yes, I found I was very much in tune with when they had used and might be prone to slipping into mania. Since they've stopped using marijuana, I have seen one episode of perhaps, hypomania, but nothing to the extent we saw when they were using.

Much thanks for the comments and suggestions of yourself and amaviena. If any others have any other thoughts, please share. Otherwise, I assume we'll simply go forward with our tenative plan to talk it over with them and come up with some mutually defined expectations.

~ Namaste

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