[BNLsMOM]

At what point do the little things in a marriage add up to become intolerable?

There is no abuse, no infidelity that I know of which are the big deal breakers.

The little things like constant lying about bills, lack of support in taking over household chores and bill paying when I am sick, constant collections calls and notices and continued ignorance of bills even when I remind him. Electricity and gas being turned off repeatedly because of lack of payment; Lack of intimacy (severe, as in we've been no more than room mates for a year), severe procrastination to the point where the house and cars are in constant jeopardy of being repossessed...

What is worse, living with this and constantly having my illness triggered, or leaving with the kids and breaking up the family?

I am freaking trapped. I don't know what to do.

I am so triggered that I am getting ready to find my own apartment and separate. I don't know what to do.

[blueoctober]

BNLsMOM, I am sorry that you are feeling overwhelmed right now.

I would recommend speaking with a marriage counselor (if you haven't already).

Definitely there can be deal breakers in any relationship and you need to decide what that is for yourself, but I think it's worth putting the effort in and get to the core of the issues otherwise you may repeat it in the next relationship. Calling it quits too hastily may have you regretting it in a few months.

Either way I think it's important to speak to someone impartial regarding it such as a counselor. It's a huge decision.

[BNLsMOM]

We have been in counseling together for over a year.

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by BNLsMOM

We have been in counseling together for over a year.

It's a tough decision to make and it makes it even harder if you have put the effort in i.e. seeing a counselor and it still doesn't change. Sorry that you are going through this. Relationship BS is doubly hard for someone with a mood disorder. It sucks!

[BNLsMOM]

Is it my relationship sparking the mood disorder, or is it the mood disorder destroying the relationsip?

I just don't trust myself to make any decisions, and I would destroy my family if I did decide to separate. I don't work and I am on disability, so I would never find an apartment anyway.

There is just nothing I can do.

BNLsMOM... Wish I had an easy answer. Don't you wish there were some sort of calculation machine where various factors could be ranked, thrown in and the best answer would come out the other side? I sure did, 'cause it would have saved a lot of time.

Was in quite a similar situation till January. And it was mostly wanting out on my end, though years of dealing with my BP (even though it wasn't diagnosed for years and years) had definitely taken their toll on him too. Unlike you, there wasn't any bill paying issues. That factor must be very stressful for you. He was very responsible with that. And frankly, his stability in this area was a big reason I stayed so long. I'm good with paying bills, but not at all good with making money with which to do so. I mostly had my own account, but there was a time after I closed it (after ditching a business) that I thought I'd just go through the joint acct. Wrong! He bought all kinds of things for himself, then told me "we couldn't afford" for me to take a small weekend away in the next state. (Yup, you better believe I opened up my own account the very next day. His access was non existant. That P.O.D. assured he'd have to get it only from my cold dead hands.) Then again, I was PISSED!

Like you, there was no abuse. Not physical for sure -- HUGE dealbreaker for me. There was quite a few passive aggressive tendencies, and "jokes" in *very* poor taste that were very hurtful, sooo, mental? Yes, some. No infidelity that I knew of for sure. A couple of suspicions, but sometimes I can't tell that from paranoia. Lack of intimacy? Big time. Separate rooms as far as they could be from each other. Completely separate lives and associations. In a very small town, there were many people that didn't even realize we were married, if that's any indication.

Kid, yes. House, yes. 25 year history. There's a lot of people that would have looked at that and wonder what I was thinking. But for the last, oh... decade, things had really otherwise turned a corner, you know? The last few years especially. But this also coincided with major mental problems for me, so I felt inept at life, let alone heading out into the big scary world. I felt trapped too. Big time. You know what finally turned it? Getting help and getting on meds that worked. My thinking was that if ever I could take the leap, I better avail myself of the timing. One thing I took great care in assessing was making sure I wasn't hypomanic and just doing something stupid. Then another thing happened, that although I'm not a person of faith, I could only see as divine intervention. I had struck up a relationship with someone. Yeah, that *sounds* bad, but given the situation and that there had already been months of talking about heading separate ways, it really wasn't. (That, and I'm sorry. If anyone has an issue with it, I'd like to say, "Rack up 25 years of perfect fidelity, then talk to me." I have no guilt.) (We met IRL, hit it off fantastically. I took a giant leap of faith and we are now making our way together. I threw down the BP card early. He's the first and only person that has cared to notice when episodes hit me and to empathize and not judge. I can't tell you what that means to me.) Economically? I won't lie. It's been rough.

So, blah blah blah, this isn't about me. Just wanted you to know, that yes, I very much understand how sooo many factors play into such a decision and that it is doubly confusing when there are no big "dealbreaker" factors that others can easily understand. It isn't easy, and only you can truly make the decision based on your particular set of circumstances. Blueoctober makes a very good point in that seeking counselling may not only help you parse out the factors (because so often communication DOES play a big role and it's very worth exploring this), but keep you from repeating them. VERY good point.

Let us know (if you are so inclined of course) how it's going for you and any things you find helpful, because you know we care deeply for you here and only want the best for you.

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by BNLsMOM

Is it my relationship sparking the mood disorder, or is it the mood disorder destroying the relationsip?.

In my experience it has never been one person, or one thing that causes a relationship to break down. There are 2 people and every relationship has its issues whether there is a bp spouse or not.

There are times when I can be more objective with my decision making and if you don't think you are in that place I would suggest waiting before you make that decision.

[BlackPup]

Is it my relationship sparking the mood disorder, or is it the mood disorder destroying the relationsip?

The little things like constant lying about bills, lack of support in taking over household chores and bill paying when I am sick, constant collections calls and notices and continued ignorance of bills even when I remind him. Electricity and gas being turned off repeatedly because of lack of payment; Lack of intimacy (severe, as in we've been no more than room mates for a year), severe procrastination to the point where the house and cars are in constant jeopardy of being repossessed...

Maybe your BP doesn't help, but it sounds like there are many other issues that are his. The problems that you bring to the marriage are yours, the ones that he does are his.
You deserve his respect, lying to you is not respecting you so it is definitely something you should discuss with him. Maybe you can change the ways that bills are handled so that you are in charge. If the counselling is working after a year, then think about why is it not working: are you both being honest, are there irreconcilable differences, do you work well with the counsellor?
Try to be honest with him about how what he does affects you. Also about if you want to make this work, how much and what you need to keep on going. Remember that you both have issues that exacerbate your responses to each others faults.

It really sounds like a terrible situation and I am hoping that you find a solution soon.

[sugahorse1]

I'm sorry you're in this boat.
I've been with my BF for 5 years and recently I'm beginning to think if I need to get out. He doesn't support me, he can get angry, he drinks with the boys instead of being home with me (Especially if I'm going through a depressive episode).
His erratic behaviour makes me feel used and rejected, lack of respect... and it can be a serious trigger. Just y/day I was thinking that at least if you're single and have no-one, you cannot be let down...

[owllover99]

Well, I'm gonna be hard *** and say start making plans to get out. You do have an income (that's a plus). Now to find shelter, etc.
You've been to counseling for a year. He still is treating you like s___. You have kids to raise. You have BP. His antics only add to your ups and downs.
Being without a man has it advantages. I lived alone a lot. And if something would happen, I would gladly do it again.
I took a lot of crap because I thought I wasn't good enough not to that I wasn't as good as anybody else.
And I know a lot of women take crap because they don't want to be lonely. Well, that is like a mood. It passes. You get used to living alone. Then you actually start enjoying it.
I know it's your life and your decision. I just hate to see you suffer. And I know all the stuff your going through is messing with your BP.
Good luck. Hugs, Owl.

[Trippin2.0]

I think of ALL relationships as a retail outlet...

Am I getting out, what I put in?

1) I won't make an expensive purchase and shrug my shoulders when I don't get change...I'd demand my change, or my money's worth!

Most deal breakers are huge, but you need to verify what you are prepared to put up with, and what you are not. Someone else causing you ill health, sounds like a deal breaker to me, even if it's tiny contributing factors...they add up and form a FACTOR.

People who are not beneficial to your health and happiness, are ultimately people who are playing a destructive role in your life, and therefore not needed, no matter how attached you are to them, you have to look after NO1 first, so that you can look after your kids...

I'm not saying you MUST LEAVE YOUR HUSBAND, only you can make that decision, I'm just calling it like I see it.

Good luck with whatever you decide, we are here for you!

[Shakti]

Originally Posted by owllover99

Well, I'm gonna be hard *** and say start making plans to get out. You do have an income (that's a plus). Now to find shelter, etc.

You've been to counseling for a year. He still is treating you like s___. You have kids to raise. You have BP. His antics only add to your ups and downs.
Being without a man has it advantages. I lived alone a lot. And if something would happen, I would gladly do it again.

I know it's your life and your decision. I just hate to see you suffer. And I know all the stuff your going through is messing with your BP.
.

I have to say....I pretty much have to get on board with this.

Your BP may be an "issue" but ****--if he had cancer or HIV would be expect sympathy or belittling? I don't see the difference. A major illness with no known cure is a major illness with no known cure.

I'm also right there with Innerzone (who I am becoming convinced more and more each day is my long lost twin).

Only you can make this decision, but if you do and if you have decided it is the right thing for you, you will ultimately feel liberated. I don't think he even seems to care to help make your BP better or to help not trigger it. He also sounds like he's pretty irresponsible--the lights going out? I mean, really? Of course, only you two know the dynamic you have.

I've had to do what you are contemplating twice. I do feel liberated and they were good decisions. The process was not easy, but the end result made me healthier and more in control of myself and my own life.

As the mill wheel grinds, comes new birth from destruction. Birth is painful. But it's also exciting and full of hope. If this is triggering you more than helping you, I think you should really consider starting to plan. Sock away some money, look for resources, etc. Most of all realize this: You ARE NOT breaking up a family. You will all be a family unit still, even through the pretty much unavoidable animosity that will first be there if you do leave him. But if you approach him with this topic and say you don't think it's working and ask what he thinks and involve him in it, it may go better than you expect. My ex-husband (#2) and I are very close and very co-parent like champs. It can be done. You can do this, if this is what you feel needs to be done. Put your health first. I had to do exactly that and I'm so much healthier and better for it. Despite my loving him very much, it just wasn't working, and now things are much better. And I did it twice. The first marriage was a flash in the pan, but the second was the real deal, but I ended it for my own health anyway. And we were nothing more than roommates (in separate bedrooms even) for upwards of two years before the decision was made.

Good luck to you. I know how difficult this is.

P.S. I LOVE LOVE LOVE living alone. Pure freedom. Bliss. (I don't live alone now, but when I do, I LOVE it.)

[BNLsMOM]

Thanks for all the opinions. I am not afraid to be alone. In fact, I have been divorced before and it was the best decision I ever made. My ex is the father of my first child and we get along better now than when we were married.

My biggest fear is causing grief to my kids. My oldest is 8 and would understand what is going on and feel the loss acutely. he suffers from anxiety and depression and I think some of it has to do with the fact that we don't live with his father any more.
My youngest is 3 and he would probably not understand as well as the 8 year old, but I am afraid he would grow up with the same pain my oldest feels.

I have some money put away, probably enough to live on for a year aong with my disability. I have medicare now so if he cut us off the health plan, i could probably get medicaid for the kids.

I would have to probably move in with my parents until my illness is under control.
I am afraid he would fight for custody and win the youngest (His biological) because of all my hospitalizations.

I just think that divorcing would ruin my oldest son's life and that is the only reason I haven't walked out the door already to be honest. If it werent for that reason, it would have been over a long time ago. My husband even agrees with that.

What a fricken mess.

[perpetuallysad]

Originally Posted by BNLsMOM

At what point do the little things in a marriage add up to become intolerable?

There is no abuse, no infidelity that I know of which are the big deal breakers.

The little things like constant lying about bills, lack of support in taking over household chores and bill paying when I am sick, constant collections calls and notices and continued ignorance of bills even when I remind him. Electricity and gas being turned off repeatedly because of lack of payment; Lack of intimacy (severe, as in we've been no more than room mates for a year), severe procrastination to the point where the house and cars are in constant jeopardy of being repossessed...

What is worse, living with this and constantly having my illness triggered, or leaving with the kids and breaking up the family?

I am freaking trapped. I don't know what to do.

I am so triggered that I am getting ready to find my own apartment and separate. I don't know what to do.

Well, hon, I have to say you really have stuck it out through a lot of ****. I hate that things only seem to get worse, not better, especially with the newly diagnosed health problems of your son. I am not going to give advice to stay or leave, because I know that's something you've got to figure out on your own, but I have been in a very similar situation and regardless of having a son together, I did chose to leave. I just couldn't deal with all of the instability on top of my personal mental instability.

I guess everyone has the right to decide to be responsible or not and it seems like he hasn't decided to be responsible. Maybe (and I'm really talking out of my *** here) he chooses to be lackadaisical about the money issues as sort of a passive aggressive way to "get back at you" for the emotional issues you have? By the way, I am completely not condoning this. He knows you are ill and he chose to marry you (I know you were undiagnosed at the time) but so far he's chosen to stay which would (to me) imply that he's willing to take on the additional responsibilities of dealing with the bills and their payment. I know that I am personally very irrisponsible with money. Not that I overspend so much because I grew up desperately poor, I am more likely to go on a "shopping spree" at the Dollar Tree or something... I digress, but I am really bad at paying bills on time. I have a terrible fear of "having no money" so I would keep money rather than pay bills that I had plenty of money to spend. After literally having my car repossessed because I couldn't make the payments (because I was afraid to spend the money), anyway after that, I broke down and asked my husband (not the jerk that is my son's sperm donor) to take care of money things. It was hard for me, but he's taken the responsibility on and has never complained. You know, I have no clue where I was going with this now that I typed so much. I guess I was just trying to illustrate that it is possible for someone to be responsible and take care of the things they should. I guess its part of the give and take of marriage.

And know that though it was really, really hard, I did leave the first jerk and I am way better off for it. We had very, very little while I was alone, but we did ok and we were far happier without him than we ever were with him.

Originally Posted by Shakti

I'm also right there with Innerzone (who I am becoming convinced more and more each day is my long lost twin).

Most of all realize this: You ARE NOT breaking up a family. You will all be a family unit still, even through the pretty much unavoidable animosity that will first be there if you do leave him. But if you approach him with this topic and say you don't think it's working and ask what he thinks and involve him in it, it may go better than you expect. My ex-husband (#2) and I are very close and very co-parent like champs. It can be done.

LOL, no kidding, huh?!

And yes, it is a good point about that it really isn't breaking up a family. I don't see it that way either. And seconded on the cooperative respectful approach. Worked here too. To the point where *everyone* comments they can't believe how smoothly and cooperatively it went. One of the very important elements for this is *both* people realizing that, nothing personal, but ain't nobody really happy with the situation and life's too short. If things can go cooperatively, there is much much much less stress on everyone.

BNLsMOM, to be honest, I didn't have the same kid situation to deal with. Kid, yes (17) (years, not number!). I knew that his Dad was far more stable and also knew I couldn't handle it. Made it much easier. (Plus his finishing school and local friends. I was moving out of state.) Would you still be in the same area?

I don't know if all this info is useful, but maybe something one of us says will help with a new perspective. I remember how the very same versions of thoughts went 'round and 'round in my head. I never talked with anyone about it. Which worked ok for this, but in other areas, know what it is to get locked in to thought patterns where it might be more useful to break out of them. Something we probably all experience.

[Perna]

I find it odd your husband keeps up the negative behavior/it doesn't change; what is his reasoning? I don't know if bills don't get paid because you all don't have enough money and/or he is no good at paying bills or he too has problems and the tasks aren't ones he can do comfortably.

My husband is a brilliant electrical engineer, has several inventions/patents to his name and is no good whatsoever doing household repairs, especially electrical ones! Household chores he has chosen to do, he does not do at all like I would do them. I have finally learned, I think in 20 years marriage that he comes from a different background and set of experiences and is a "man" and was trained wholly differently than I was growing up. It still sometimes amazes me he doesn't understand the first things about cars (my expectations of what "men" do/know) and several other subjects but I've gotten so I can adapt.

But I like my husband and it sounds like you may not like yours? What helps me enormously is the realization that I can live with the man I love, with a home and lifestyle I enjoy. . . and take out the trash; or, I can live with no companion, in a much less pleasant lifestyle. . . and take out the trash.

If you move out, you will have to pay the bills. Why not pay the bills now, since he doesn't do as well at it as you would like?

[BNLsMOM]

I have decided that I will basically take over the bills and all the money related issues. I am going to have him direct deposit his paycheck to an account that is accessible only to me and I am going to pay the bills from that account. I will also have him split some of the paycheck off to an account that he can use for gas money and his stupid random spending habits. I am also going to be in charge of saving as much as we can and all things financial. When I need help I am going to go to someone other than him, either an accountant or my parents or something. I am going to give him a deadline of the end of August to get the direct deposit paperwork done or I will leave. It has come to that.

If he gets the paperwork done and I stay, I have decided that we will live as roommates/coparents so that we don't hurt the kids. The other part of the ultimatum is that he gets help for his issues and works to change himself. Hopefully, things will get better. If not, at least I won't be hurting the kids. I am going to start living on my own terms and not according to the way he has set up our lives.

Then I will see where we are in another year and figure out what to do from there.

[Moreta]

The other part of the ultimatum is that he gets help for his issues and works to change himself.

I haven't been dealing with this issue with my husband, but I have been dealing with the issue of wanting to cut my mother completely out of my life. I have talked with the therapist many times, about giving her an ultimatum to get some help. He always reminds me that, I am not in charge of what other people do in their lives, and do I really think if she got help, would anything really change? People have to want to change themselves. I have to figure out ways to cope better myself and not depend on them to do the changing.

[BlackPup]

I've been with my BF for 5 years and recently I'm beginning to think if I need to get out. He doesn't support me, he can get angry, he drinks with the boys instead of being home with me (Especially if I'm going through a depressive episode).
His erratic behaviour makes me feel used and rejected, lack of respect... and it can be a serious trigger. Just y/day I was thinking that at least if you're single and have no-one, you cannot be let down

Suga, my hubby is the same, except that he uses work as an excuse to not come home. Whenever I get depressed, he starts working longer hours... At first I thought it was the other way around and I was getting depressed coz he wasn't round, but then I realised in one of those flashes of insight that he was avoiding me when I was depressed - which obviously makes me feel rejected and really crap and makes everything sooo much worse.
Eventually I realized that this was actually his problem because he was unable to deal with me being depressed and it wasn't cos he didn't love me or was rejecting me but that he was unable to be different. Now I don't take it personally (or as personally!) and it doesn't hurt as much. Also when I need something, I tell him and make it clear that this is something that I will be upset and angry about if it doesn't happen. He responds really well to this and it has saved many arguments.

If he gets the paperwork done and I stay, I have decided that we will live as roommates/coparents so that we don't hurt the kids. The other part of the ultimatum is that he gets help for his issues and works to change himself. Hopefully, things will get better. If not, at least I won't be hurting the kids. I am going to start living on my own terms and not according to the way he has set up our lives.

BNLsMom, Sounds like you are putting into place some great strategies to protect yourself. You are equal partners in your life together so you should be able to have significant input into the way your lives are set up. I think its a great idea for you to take over the bills as it obviously isn't his strong point. I think he will be relieved (even if he doesn't say it).
I also agree with Queen Accountant, he is the only one who can change himself, and he has to want to do it, no matter how much you want him to want it, only he can make that decision. The only thing that you can do is identify when something is his problem and don't make it your problem, don't let his actions say something bad about who you are and how you feel about yourself if its his issues that are causing the problem. Also be aware of how your issues, triggers and moods influence your response to his actions and comments. When you identify something that you have overreacted to, then let him know, even if it the next day or next week... "Last week when you said ..... and I got really angry it wasn't just because of what your said but because ......." Its really hard to do, but it really decreases the tension and means you are not walking on egg shells around each other.
All the best for you and your kids. I really hop that this gets better for all of you especially your oldest. It would be horrible for him to have to go through this.

[Shakti]

These are some really great steps to take to resolve these issues. Even with my BP I handle ALL the money, bills, etc. I'm OCD too, so I take pure joy in turning our money into spreadsheets, pivot charts, doing and re-doing the budgets over and over and over, and I pay every bill at least a week early, usually two. It's the ONE thing that absolutely never falls by the wayside.

Your other strategies for managing this also show that you mean business and I think it's wonderful. I feel proud. (Jeez---I gotta stop being such a mama bear to everyone in the world.)

Yay!

I hope this helps things get better. And if not, at least you know where you stand, that you took a stand, and that you did all you could.

[BNLsMOM]

Very true, I can't make him change. I am just letting him know that I want him to have the time to work on himself. Maybe it is just the little kick that he needs to get going.

Meanwhile, I have gone through all the piles of mail and found all the current bills with the exception of the electric bill whick I think hasn't come yet. Everything is together, in a box with a check book and a pen. I will go to the post office tomorrow and get stamps. (I didn't think of it today) I also went to the bank and paid off my car loan entirely so that frees up money each month. (I found out at the bank that it hadn't been paid since April...sigh...)

I had a long talk with my T and we discussed all the steps I am taking to make things right. He was very surprised and pleased with the progress I made since Wednesday and he is going to support me in my decisions and help me work through it when things get tough.

I feel so much better right now. I am going to hope that with the work we do that our relationship will have the room to heal.

[kadesgirl09]

(((BNLsMOM))) I am just getting caught up on threads and ran across this one. Just wanted to say I agree with your t about the progress you made in such a short amount of time. You found a solution and went for it. Hugs and encouragement for you BNLsMOM!!

[BNLsMOM]

We went on our trip even though before we left the bank he needed to go to pay his car loan was closed. It was sort of a dark cloud over the trip. He has 9 days left until his car gets repossessed. It was the last bill he wanted to take care of before I take over, but clearly, I will have to take this one on too and pay for it out of my savings.

We should have stayed home and taken care of this. I made the mistake of letting him be in charge of the money for the trip and he spent all of it plus the money for the loan. Why did I do that? Stupid... I assumed that the bank would be open and assumed that he would put aside the money for the car. Ha ha. I guess I got a lesson in what happens when one assumes...

I'll take care of that tomorrow.

I have inherited a big mess from him and it is going to take a while to get out of it...

[sugahorse1]

Hang in there and try keep your head above water. BE the rational one. I know you can do it.
Thinking of you!