How Much Does Mindset Have To Do With It?

Hi everyone,

I recognize that I'll need to be on meds for the rest of my life, and I've accepted this. But I wonder how much our recovery from Bipolar Disorder depends upon our mindset - meaning, a positive or negative outlook.

I also wonder, are we able to control our mindset when we're deep in the pit of depression? Or do we need to first be medicated and/or attend therapy before we can begin to be more positive? How much control do we have over our mind, to decide whether or not we'll get through a depressive episode?

I'm not sure. When I was going through my worst ever depressive episode, my mind felt like I wasn't capable of making any choices, even the most basic of choices. Somehow I doubt I would have been able to form the thinking of "It's temporary, I'll get through this".

Now that I'm relatively stable though, on medications and attending both individual and group therapy, I can see how important our perspective is. There can be one person with Bipolar Disorder who decides that they're comfortable being depressed, not seeking help, not wanting to change...and of course they're more likely to stay depressed. Then another person with Bipolar Disorder may be more realistic. They may seek help, knowing that eventually the episode will pass.

I still experience the depressed day, or even the depressed week...but I find that having that realistic and optimistic perspective is very helpful.

Any thoughts?

I ditto your perspective.

When I am deep in depression, all of my mindset is on forcing myself to fulfill the daily requirements of life. "Acting as if" all day (smiling, appearing normal at work) is draining. Being on meds, for me, is using a positive mindset, because I am taking every step I can to get better and I know what my brain needs).

When the depression lifts enough, I can see out of the fog enough to strain my efforts towards a positive mindset, but all the while feeling the depression trying to tug me back down, I have to keep saying "no" to it, like a child constantly pulling on your arm, trying to pull your attention away from what you are doing. I actually see it and feel it as a black swirl at my feet, yanking on my arm for my attention.
When I do have control over it, I resist. But it is insulting to me when people suggest that I should just snap out of depression. I do my best, but that is just not how it is for me. For me.

So, for me, When I can do it, I work at a positive mindset. I am on meds and I need them to even get close to being out of depression.

I recognize that I'll need to be on meds for the rest of my life, and I've accepted this. But I wonder how much our recovery from Bipolar Disorder depends upon our mindset - meaning, a positive or negative outlook.

I'd say it's the most important part. Best drugs in the world will not give you will to live (to me not wanting to off yourself does not equal wanting to live).

So I think it ALL depends on one's mindset. Everything else is secondary. All the therapies and drugs and whatever... all pointless unless you do have the "here I am and gonna make best of this life, no matter the obstacles".

I'm not sure. When I was going through my worst ever depressive episode, my mind felt like I wasn't capable of making any choices, even the most basic of choices. Somehow I doubt I would have been able to form the thinking of "It's temporary, I'll get through this".

I think this can be learned. You know it is gonna pass, because it did before. YOu can learn to work in crisis mode.

This does not mean you "snap out of it", but you don't have to be at mercy of your moods. Doing so makes it only worse.

I often hear how I must be "stable" all the time since I don't need drugs or not even bipolar at all... that is not so. Even on meds..... you still gonna have episodes and how you deal with it is what matters at the moment. It's not about "treatment" you use... but you cannot count on it to keep you sane.

Glory to heroes!

HATEFREE CULTURE

I think the single most important thing you can do is to start any form you like of a cardiovascular exercise when you are not depressed and that would change your mindset, and possibly stave off depression. If depression happens and you can at least do a bit of this exercise routine, it would be so much better for you. Studies confirm that. It is critical, I feel, to harness the power of hypomania, if hypomania occurs, to starts an exercise program while inside that stage and then keep it up at lower energy level. Gonna go do now what I preach - long overdue

My mindset has had to do with any singular important thing I have ever done with my life, including the fading of my mood symptoms. Granted, they do sometimes peek out every now & again due to *having* a condition, no matter how much I think otherwise.
But if you have the right mindset it is so much easier to cope with. You'll naturally hone tools & habits to deal with the depression simply by not LIVING depressed... Because depression is not a part of you, but your perspective certainly is. When you are positive about your outcome & about your life, you simply cannot go on living like a depressed or "damaged" person. It's not a natural reaction.
It's not a heal all & people's resistances to life situations vary... But anti-depressants were not formulated to make all of someone's misery go away. Rather, it is a helpful crutch for when someone is on their own path to recovery. I don't think mood stabilizers work in the same way, as they correct an imbalance rather than feed you neurotransmitters to create the effect-- But if you have your mind under control you could definitely lessen your dosage over time! : )
No one is exempt from the placebo effect that their own perspective can create for them. It's just a matter of being sure of yourself & setting your mind to a result, no matter how taxing it may be at first. It takes patience, but honestly? It's MORE than worth it.

No one is exempt from the placebo effect that their own perspective can create for them. It's just a matter of being sure of yourself & setting your mind to a result, no matter how taxing it may be at first. It takes patience, but honestly? It's MORE than worth it.


I think placebo effect is a biggie here. I wish there were more studies done about this and how to use it for good of the people.

I have beef with advocacy groups because they push the thought that you CANNOT help yourself at all. It's a chemical imbalance, ya'll and you are powerless. I get why this is said... we do have harder time then others to do the living thing, but nobody should be learned to be powerless. Just because you cannot do it at the moment doesn't mean you are never in control and that you'll always feel this bad unless miracle happens.

Of course, mind-altering substances (prescribed meds or magical herbs from Siberian shamans or plains of Tibet......) can help. But not always, not 100% and one has to know how to deal with themselves.

Glory to heroes!

HATEFREE CULTURE

I dunno, I think it's a loaded question, because with Bipolar, it always kinda depends on the mood. One day I might feel like taking on the world, another day I feel like I want to die and want to do nothing at all. I like having projects that I can work on, and take my mind off of my crazy. Especially music, because I can kindof "talk" through it and use my moods in a constructive way. I've noticed, since being on meds, that my music is much less dark and depressing.

I dunno, I know my life is going to be a lifelong roller coaster, and I'm trying to accept that.. or even embrace it. I like certain things about the disorder, of course, as in everything, there are downsides, but I try to just think about the good things. Like my ability to completely shut someone off with no regret or remorse. I find that empowering in ways. I like using my intellect to sarcastically dig into someone that sucks, and I seem to have a very distinct and deliberate way of cutting someone down to the lowest possible point imaginable. Naturally I only use it when I have to, but I can be funny about it, which just adds to the insult.

I try to embrace these things as "powers". I like my sense of humor, my moodiness, and the fact that I am sober from alcohol and other drugs now and for a good reason. There are lots of positives, so yes, I believe mindset has alot to do with it, but each person is different and has different circumstances.

My mindset and outlook has really improved how I react to stressful situations and made me less likely to get depressed because of something someone has said or done.
BUT thats just the reactive depression that everybody including the normals get...
I'm not convinced that it can greatly affect my bipolar depression (that's what I call the mood swings that come from nowhere) which doesn't need a reason for being... it just is
Maybe i have more influence over it than i realise, maybe it would be worse if i indulged it and gave in rather than struggling to keep on going through it, believing it will get better.
I know somethings can help it: healthy sleep habits, exercise and going outside all help my mood, so why not how I think????
Great topic... food for thought, maybe i will try to do some positive thinking rather than reaching for some chocolate

I think a positive outlook makes you more willing to seek help when you need it. This could mean you potentially change medications and therapy (+other stuff) to help you through the episode, which means the episode may be shorter.

How do you know that? I mean, outside of the placebo effect, how do you know it? Of course, if there is an aura around them that creates the magical placebo effect and they do not mess up one's liver or kidneys, that is absolutely terrific, but I would not go as far as to say that they definitely can help.

Shrugs. Herbs work for me. And others. So what if it is a placebo of the moment of having me time with cup of good (or sometimes horrid tasting) tea? I trust Russians when it comes to herbs

I am not gonna go further, because it is really pointless... I am just a hick from the Bloc. Or extreme hippie.

Glory to heroes!

HATEFREE CULTURE

True, herbs don't always work for everyone. There are sometimes adverse reactions. But if you believe it works & if you look up your information first, there is no sense in npt trying to see if it works for you. I'm very interested in herbal medicine because I've seen too many people looking to heavy pharmaceuticals for very minor problems. And oftentimes, they just cover up the symptoms without getting to the core... That & all "medicines" were derived from herbal treatments to begin with! White Willow Bark, for example, is a very close cousin to aspirin.
I'm by no means advocating to stop your medicine if you really need it & if it's really helping, but there's something out there for everyone. Whether it's meds, herbs, therapy, dancing naked in a field of tulips wearing nothing but a turban, whatever! Hahahaha. That may have been unrealistic, but I'm feeling facetious. :P

http://www.dana.org/news/features/de....aspx?id=35506

From a comment:

Just food for thought.

Melissa...you've definitely 'hit the nail on the head' with this thread.

Your frame of mind has a substantial impact on the success of a particular treatment. If you don't believe in a treatment, it most likely will not work. Unfortunately people with bipolar rarely have a choice in which way to view a treatment. Whilst stuck in a depressive episode...we will be less willing to commit to a treatment and may have a poor outlook for the future of the success of the treatment in our individual cases.

Herein comes the purpose of medication. It plays a very important part in a treatment plan - especially when used in conjunction with a therapy (such as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy or Dialectical Behavioural Therapy). What their purpose is...is to at least partially improve a mood so that the patient can take part in therapy and has more willpower to commit to it - as well as increase their positivity and help them to feel as though the therapy is getting somewhere.

So yes. Frame of mind has a lot to do with it, and a combination of medication, therapy and other treatment techniques is also very important.

RB ♥

Bipolar life has it's ups and downs

Currently experiencing slight relapse into depressive episode but overall stability for almost a year!

Yeah. I get in states that no amount of willpower will overcome. Beat myself up for years and years over not being able to do that. Like you say, having not even a sense of choice. Meds allowed me to get to a place where it's possible to see/think that there even is any kind of choice and to be able to make use of that. It does help for sure, because in seeing the choice, acting on it in small ways, it can play into bigger actions that have positive impact on stability. You know, positive building on positive. All components working in sync. Which is no guarantee that something won't go wonky and send me "back there", but it can definitely help to extend expanses of stability.

*********
Mr. Robot

Makes me sick to the heart, Oh I feel so tired. And the way the rain comes down hard, that's how I feel inside.

--The Cure

I think that our mindset has tons to do with it.

We tend to think automatically, it seems to me, somehow we need to learn more about what exactly it is we are thinking about.
The fact is, we CAN change how we think, but, we have to learn to think that way.
We need to reteach ourselves how to think more positively, rather than continue in our automatic thoughts of negativity.tiv

How to Shift to a More Positive Mindset Your Mindset Matters

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, also called CBT, is a therapy that is often used to help people think in a healthy way. It focuses on thought (cognitive) and action (behavioral). Studies have shown that CBT can help people sleep better and help them lose weight. It also can help treat depression and keep it from returning. http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...oral-therapy-7

But with such low rates of efficiency... we need something else here. I don't know. When I hear of 15 minutes appointments with pdocs and their often present dismissivness towards patients........ added on the "you cain't" attitude... no wonder it doesn't all work.

(I am not even doubting efficiency of psychdrugs. Just efficiency of psychdrugs thrown at the person in fast appointment slot by a psychiatrist who fails in basic psychology of communication and interaction).

I think there needs to be emphasis on personal empowerment. Yes you can live your life. Dunno, it often seems to me it's 9-5 job or nothing. Alternative lifestyle probably aren't encouraged too much (I walked out when told I need to be on drugs and I shouldn't travel... I thought it was rude of her, I was not telling her she cannot breathe).

I wish the peer support organizations and **** focused more on this. On the humane aspects. On the existential ones. I do think it is possible to program yourself to the state of mind where you have well functioning crisis mode and can do it yourself most of them time. Not saying you will be 100% functional during a nasty episode, but you get through without massive damage. And more importantly maintain some sense of life despite your quirk. Finding the light and all that.

I don't know where should one start when getting back on the track. But I think more humanity in approach towards person seeking help wouldn't hurt.

Glory to heroes!

HATEFREE CULTURE

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, positive thinking can help. No, it can't fix everything.

If I hear anything to the effect of "just think your way out of depression" one more time I'll stab someone in the eye. If I could just think happy thoughts and make things better, I would have done that already. I'm pretty optimistic by nature, but when my brain basically shuts down, there's just not a lot I can do to "decide" to be better. Even when things are really bad, I keep myself going and attempt to do what needs to be done. Whether it works or not is something else, but I always feel worse if I don't at least try.

I'm already tired of hearing that I need to "accept my limitations." Yes, I realize that it's important to be realistic about what I can do when I'm depressed. But lowering my expectations in general is never going to make my life better. Setting my sights lower just robs me of the opportunity to accomplish something amazing.

Before I had this dx, everyone (including me) expected that I could do anything I put my mind to, and my abilities and potential have not changed at all because of the dx. But since the dx, I had a psych tell me that I should look for a lower-stress job than the one I've been working towards for 7 years. I told her that's not an option and I refuse to give up before I've really tried. I'm not going to stop doing the work that I love unless I truly cannot handle it, but I have to give it a go before I'll know what I can manage. I just have to remind myself that sometimes it's OK to take things a little more slowly for awhile - that's the extent of "accepting my limitations" that I'm willing to accept.

\rant

I was taught in two different group therapy programs for depression that actions change thoughts, then actions and thoughts change feelings. Basically it was a triangle model and the easiest thing to change first was actions, which in turn helps changes thoughts and then feelings. Feelings are hard to just automatically change, and so are thoughts, not impossible just hard.

I do think mindset has a lot to do with it. It isn't going to cure you, but by Building a solid foundation of hope, positivity, and actions that support these can only help. For myself I find the more I work on building that foundation, the easier it is to come back to. I still get depressed but I can get myself back out faster and easier than before.

I'm going to leave it simple, I don't want to write a novel. However I think minset is HUGE. All the meds I have ever taken have not helped me as much as changing my minset has. Meds can help some get to a place where they can actually work on this, but for me mindset has been the more powerful longer lasting of the two.