[Bipolar1Disorder]

I go about and visit a lot a bipolar and psych sites all over the internet and I have been a member of tons of bipolar internet groups. I notice these sites and forums are all very concerned about "Fighting the Stigma" and acting all in denial about the symptoms. I would like to discuss the "Stigma and about fighting it or trying to hide it.

I have problems understanding about this and the only conclusion I can come up with is the symptoms of most bipolar people are not severe enough to hide in the back room, so the next step is to hide the little symptoms that are present and make the most of it. Is this true? Can someone please shed some light on this for me...

[cocoabeans]

What do you mean?

The conclusion I made about this years ago is that, generally speaking, well-educated, intelligent, and informed people do not have a stigma regarding any illness.

They know that the human is subject to all kinds of physical and mental illnesses, and the ones that get the spotlight are the most severe types that draw attention.

Some say that "it's alive and well"; that may be true in some places. I prefer to live in a place where there is enough education and enlightenment about mental illness not to have to deal with an outlook like that.

Others will disagree; so be it. We aren't responsible for what we were born with; we are accountable to ourselves and others for behavior that doesn't hurt another intentionally and is responsible.

One I know used to say if "life gives you a lemon, make lemonade". I prefer that.

I don't like this analogy but I will use it because it might be appropriate for some who hold stigmas related to illnesses of any type. There was a time when leprosy was considered an untouchable social condition. Then it was discovered that it was caused by a virus and could be cured. We don't hear too much about that anymore.
There were whispers years ago about so-and-so's having cancer. What nonsense!

I knew a socialite whose father was bipolar and she was also. Hers was so severe that friends had to watch over her expressions to make sure she wasn't entering a severe depression. There was no stigma attached to her. She was highly respected and a strong social leader in the church and in the community.

The reason that stigma exists so in some places is related to the fact that what is negative is more easily absorbed by the brain than what is positive. I even know a few paranoid personalities who hide their illness by looking down on others. I suppose it gives them some sort of false sense of superiority.

It's so stone-age backwards to hold such negativity in relation to human conditions.

Enlightenment is the positive view and, secondly, when the genes responsible for
bipolar illness are determined, or if it turns out to be a cerebral allergy, things will change for the less educated and negative thinkers. Hopefully, that time is coming soon, but it won't until information reaches them that reveals the brain is no less subject to illness than the kidneys, the liver, the pancreas, the spleen, or the stomach.

I just don't attach a high priority to owning a stigma that some do. I see that as an effort to cover one's own failure, not the failure of the mentally ill person.

But it's there mostly in the buiness world, my psychiatrist says, because of the medical costs which businesses must pay for their employees who are bipolar. Money, money, money, folks.

I know there will be strong disagreement; I expect it, but I still believe that people
like Dr. Kay Jamison Redfield, a bipolar herself and a psychiatrist who teaches regarding the illness at a university (and has written at least two books on the subject) was told by her co-doctors just to be sure she took her medications.

That's the view that most appeals to me, not the one that I heard once from a poor woman who said about another, "he's got somethin' wrong wiff his haid".

Take care.

[cocoabeans]

Off topic but, Leprosy is caused by a bacteria not a virus.

Originally Posted by cocoabeans

Off topic but, Leprosy is caused by a bacteria not a virus.

_______________________________________

Thanks, Cocoabeans. I wondered about that when I wrote it because I know that antibiotics aren't effective against viruses. But you get the idea, I know.

Genetic

[ChristySpirals]

Your perception of what was said sometimes plays into that stigma. When ppl are being nice to me, ppl who know about my mi, I feel patronized sometimes (depending on my mood). Like tread carefully because they don't want to upset me and my mi. When happy and ppl are nice it just means we are all as one and get each other.

Originally Posted by ChristySpirals

Your perception of what was said sometimes plays into that stigma. When ppl are being nice to me, ppl who know about my mi, I feel patronized sometimes (depending on my mood). Like tread carefully because they don't want to upset me and my mi. When happy and ppl are nice it just means we are all as one and get each other.

________________________________________

Sorry, Christy, I don't get the connection. I understand what you are
saying about people being cautious in attempting not to upset you,
but that's quite different from stigma.

From your view, "When happy (meaning you) and people are nice, it just means we are all as one and get each other." That's real friendship and
has no real bearing on the social stigma those who have experienced it
recall, in my view (or at least their concern about it as it affects their
lives). Stigma means for them exclusion--a very painful experience.

[ChristySpirals]

Ok got it. Sorry I took it to a different level. I agree that the stigma can be pretty hurtful. What I meant is how I take the stigma differently depending on my mood.

[BlueInanna]

I think we're waiting for stigma to change, like it has with some other MI like adhd and depression. Because most people, unless they've seen it or felt it, don't have compassion for bp. Talk to them all you want, and many just want to pretend it is not a real illness, or just they don't want anything to do with it or anyone who has it. Then they'll criticize you for being on meds, or for not being on meds...

The stigma is that a bp person is a monster (not even going into some religious views on bp). The stigma is that the bp person is less than, not worthy, weak, drug-seeking, etc., etc. So many people do hide their symptoms as best they can, staying home from work, avoiding society.

So what do we do? Fight the stigma... ? I'm sure there are ways, there are probably organizations doing that?

Or do we conserve our energy to get through the day to day struggles? That's about all I'm strong enough to do right now... personally... is get through a day and then whoop there's another day to deal with. Oh and then there's the nights too where we sometimes don't sleep, those can be an ordeal.

I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind for the discussion of the stigma related to bp. Maybe you could explain more, what do you think about the subject?

Oh, and like Christy's saying, our perception of how we are being stigmatized absolutely affects our experience with it.

[Bipolar1Disorder]

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind for the discussion of the stigma related to bp. Maybe you could explain more, what do you think about the subject?

Yes this is what I had in mind for the discussion and I personally feel that I can not hide my symptoms at times like when I yell and get upset over something that has triggered me. But I am not a celebrity so my actions are interpreted as being crazy, hostile and stigmatized from bipolar 1 disorder which caused it to happen in the first place.

"I knew a socialite whose father was bipolar and she was also. Hers was so severe that friends had to watch over her expressions to make sure she wasn't entering a severe depression. There was no stigma attached to her. She was highly respected and a strong social leader in the church and in the community."

I am not a rich and well educated socialite so anything I do will be stigmatized now according to this view which Genetic brought to the table.
I am starting to see a little clearer now on this subject thanks to all the input here. Thanks guys keep going and we can all learn from this.

Originally Posted by Bipolar1Disorder

Yes this is what I had in mind for the discussion and I personally feel that I can not hide my symptoms at times like when I yell and get upset over something that has triggered me. But I am not a celebrity so my actions are interpreted as being crazy, hostile and stigmatized from bipolar 1 disorder which caused it to happen in the first place.

"I knew a socialite whose father was bipolar and she was also. Hers was so severe that friends had to watch over her expressions to make sure she wasn't entering a severe depression. There was no stigma attached to her. She was highly respected and a strong social leader in the church and in the community."

I am not a rich and well educated socialite so anything I do will be stigmatized now according to this view which Genetic brought to the table.
I am starting to see a little clearer now on this subject thanks to all the input here. Thanks guys keep going and we can all learn from this.

___________________________________

No, Bipolar I, you missed the point of my statement about the socialite. (That's one
of the symptoms, I think, in this illness is misunderstanding thoughts at times.)
I was saying simply that the stigma is not associated with all bipolar people.

The truth is that a stigma is relative only where people are either ignorant of the illness, too weak themselves to contribute positively to all of life, or are just naturally unequipped to deal with real life (or have to spend money to assist with employees' medical care, according to my psychiatrist).

The socialite was surrounded by well-educated, experienced people who knew what the illness is and knew how to assist when the depression or manic episodes seemed to be emerging. Her wealth was not the thing that protected her.

There's no reason for you to feel that you will be stigmatized because
you are not wealthy or do not have the support she had. If you are
independent yourself, why would you let the opinions of others affect you so strongly?

Haven't you understood along the way that we should NEVER judge ourselves based on somebody else's opinion of who we are? We have to live by our deepest principles, and that's enough to assist us to live a happy and content life--with meds, as called for.

Good wishes

Genetic

[BlueInanna]

Originally Posted by genetic

___________________________________

The truth is that a stigma is relative only where people are either ignorant of the illness, too weak themselves to contribute positively to all of life, or are just naturally unequipped to deal with real life (or have to spend money to assist with employees' medical care, according to my psychiatrist).

The socialite was surrounded by well-educated, experienced people who knew what the illness is and knew how to assist when the depression or manic episodes seemed to be emerging. Her wealth was not the thing that protected her.

There's no reason for you to feel that you will be stigmatized because
you are not wealthy or do not have the support she had. If you are
independent yourself, why would you let the opinions of others affect you so strongly?

Good wishes

Genetic

I only pulled out the sections I want to discuss. I'm trying to wrap my head around all that is written. Genetic, I respect your view. But have to say "No, No and No".

First, it is not only relative to the ignorant, etc. We have seen people here denied healthcare by doctors, considered educated. But perhaps you are right, they must be ignorant. Or ... they are choosing to not want anything to do with the bp person, because of her bp.. And please don't throw business owners into the category because I am one and I assume many other business owners may have bp. I adore my employees, they've helped me stay in business through my illness. (I'm well aware that many big businesses are very corrupt and don't give a **** about their employees)

Second, the socialite, I'm happy she had support. I'm also going to assume that her symptoms were not severe enough to have repeated hospital stays, sreaming, cops, ambulences at their front door? Neighbors don't like that. Or the wealth and connections of the family were able to hide her symptoms from the world and save her from having to feel the stinging stigma.

Third, B1D has every reason to feel stigmatized more for being poor. This is America... if you're poor there's another stigma that you just didn't work hard enough... not true of course.

[~Christina]

I have to agree with BlueInanna

And on that note Im going to shut up This topic has the ability to get ugly quickly.

Well, Blue Ianna, the information about the stigma's being present in the business world came from my psychiatrist, not from me initially. I understood what she meant. Some businesses just can't afford to carry the kind of insurance necessary to treat all employees for long periods of time... I think that was her meaning.

Now, about the socialite: her conditions were well known throughout the community but were not talked about. I lived there for 21 years and never knew her to be hospitalized or have police or ambulances at her home, except when she had several heart attacks and died. I suffered one of her blasts and put her down for it. She never tried it again.

In addition, not everyone has such a severe case of the illness that police, ambulances, hospitals, etc. are part of the scenario. As long as I lived there, I never knew anyone who tried to sting her with stigma; I'm sure she was disciplined by others at times, but isn't everyone?

I never heard of a stigma related to being poor. God help those who feel that way. If that's America, I'm embarrassed for my countrymen to have to live in a nation that holds a concept like that one.

You know, money may really be the root of all evil.

Yep, I agree with Morethingswrong. This has the ability to get ugly, and I want no part of anything like that.

Any stigma of bipolar illness doesn't wrap me in its clutches as I hope it does not with everyone. May we all have the independence of thought and strength to have peace and calmness in our lives as much as possible.

Thanks for all the responses.

Genetic

[Bipolar1Disorder]

Originally Posted by genetic

___________________________________

No, Bipolar I, you missed the point of my statement about the socialite. (That's one of the symptoms, I think, in this illness is misunderstanding thoughts at times.) I was saying simply that the stigma is not associated
with all bipolar people.

Maybe not all bipolar' are stigmatized but the ones that are should remain that way as a sign post to the rest of the population. There are severe cases of bipolar 1 w/ psychotic ideation that end up as murder suicide so there does need to be an awareness and an education about the stigma and why it is a stigma in the first place.

Originally Posted by Bipolar1Disorder

Maybe not all bipolar' are stigmatized but the ones that are should remain that way as a sign post to the rest of the population. There are severe cases of bipolar 1 w/ psychotic ideation that end up as murder suicide so there does need to be an awareness and an education about the stigma and why it is a stigma in the first place.

_______________________

Well, when you talk about murder, you're getting into the possibility of religious
beliefs governing people's view of that kind of behavior.

"There are severe cases of bipolar 1 w/psychotic ideation that end up as murder-suicide so there does need to be an awareness and an education about the stigma and why it is a stigma in the first place."

More than an awareness of the stigma, there needs to be an education of what bipolar illness is, that there are degrees of mildness or serious conditions in the illness and what methods of treatment, both classic psychotherapeutic counseling and prescribed medications and holistic views of treatment for those who are capable of going into remission.

I think there might be more educational information available on alcoholism than there is public information for bipolar illness; maybe that's one reason why alcoholism is considered more acceptable (among those who wish to accept it) than is bipolar illness (among those who wish to reject the bipolar personality). But I don't know that for a fact, just as noone else does.

Definitely, more education is needed, in my view, for the public's awareness of bipolar illness and its treatment, severity, mildness, and remission, effective medications, etc..

Needless to say, there's enough data out there already that anyone who wants to try to dissuade himself/herself from having a stigma to learn in order to relieve oneself of the burden of carrying a stigma in one's psyche.

Genetic