[manicdepressive07]

(Or any other way to self medicate)

Yay or nay?

As I lay here in bed, having the never ending fight with myself to fall asleep, I'm starting to seriously contemplate using marijuana for the sole purpose at easing my mind at night to help me get to sleep. My mind is constantly racing at night and it takes me AT LEAST 2 hours after I get to bed until I fall asleep, sometimes not until 2 or 3am.

I asked for help about insomnia on fb a few weeks ago and got an overwhelming majority vote from my "hippie" Cali friends who suggested I try smoking pot to help me get to sleep. I'm just worried about how it may interact with the drugs I take? (Namely, Geodon). Does anyone else do this or know BP persons who smoke pot for insomnia or use it to self medicate? I even asked my pdoc about it and his only seriously concern was that it was a bad idea because the drug exacerbates being "unmotivated" and having "lack of action" during the day and may cause over eating. (Which I obv don't want since I am trying to lose weight). But I would only be taking this at night, strictly before bed. Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated

[Resident Bipolar]

Bipolar/Bipolar Meds and Cannabis is a huge NO! Besides, I found it never used to help me sleep.

RB.

As a situational thing, I'm sure it would work. Since your problems with sleeping come from racing thoughts I think it could work as a long-term solution too. But I think you should at least consider other types of medication for your sleeping problems instead. In my experience weed is a much better short-term than long-term solution to most problems it can help you with. But in my case it definitely helps with racing thoughts. However, it is addictive, maybe not very addictive, but depending on how much you like it, it could very well become a problem for you.



I do bipolar meds and cannabis, and it's not a big no for me (not anymore). I really think I need it, and that it does help me. Yes, it makes me tired, but it also makes me function. It helps me in a lot of ways, not sure if I would use it if it only helped me with racing thoughts. Probably depends on how bad it is and how much cannabis helps. Cannabis can make you more unmotivated and give you "lack of action", yes. At different times I've been smoking from 1/2 joint a day (i.e. not every day) to 5 joints a day. I see a noticeable difference in motivation, but not as much as from my antipsychotics. Also, I think there is an interaction here.

[Trippin2.0]

It definitly knocked me out the other night! Don't even like smoking and haven't done it in years, but a few puffs of nice grade weed sure did the trick. My mind went quiet and I fell asleep right away.

It was blissful sleep. I hardly get those, ever.

Have you considered taking it in capsule form? I'd do that if we had that here...

[Resident Bipolar]

I've seen people on psych wards with severe psychosis with their Bipolar Disorder - symptoms which were not present before the use of cannabis. THC is a drug, no two ways about it. Drugs pretty much all have possible side effects - paranoia being one of them. I have also experienced first-hand the depression that can follow cannabis use and this can antagonise Bipolar Disorder (for obvious reasons).

Some will have a good experience, some will have a bad experience. It's risky to say the least.
RB.

Originally Posted by Resident Bipolar

I've seen people on psych wards with severe psychosis with their Bipolar Disorder - symptoms which were not present before the use of cannabis. THC is a drug, no two ways about it. Drugs pretty much all have possible side effects - paranoia being one of them. I have also experienced first-hand the depression that can follow cannabis use and this can antagonise Bipolar Disorder (for obvious reasons).

Some will have a good experience, some will have a bad experience. It's risky to say the least.
RB.

Drugs also have beneficial effects. I get that you have strong feelings about this, but I hope you can agree that it also helps a lot of people. I also have a lot of first-hand experience with the good and bad sides of cannabis. In my case, it helps a lot.

[Resident Bipolar]

I do smoke cannabis, yes. I am however unable to say that it doesn't ever cause me any adverse effects. I would also like to say that the quantities of such a drug consumed make big differences. The age at which a person begins smoking cannabis also makes a key difference.

As cannabis is still to be trialled medicinally here in the UK, I cannot recommend it as its not been proven to be safe when used by people with certain illnesses. I think it's important to remember that THC is a drug and it could perhaps therefore have potential interactions with other drugs - much like over-the-counter and prescription drugs.

I don't particularly have strong views regarding cannabis; I have strong views regarding trials and testing of anything that may be used medicinally (such as cannabis). I would welcome medicinal cannabis here with open arms because I'd know it has been thoroughly tested like any other medication.

I said its a huge no because of the risks it COULD present, risks and interactions that can only be observed through thorough clinical trials.

I've seen the good of cannabis use but also the bad, the very bad.
RB.

[sweepy62]

Omg it sure used to help me sleep but I couldn't deal with the halucinations that came with it

[bluewind]

I think marijuana is very helpful to some people. It doesn't work for me but it does work for two people I know very well as a sleep aid and a pain reliever. Our state has a medical marijuana program. I think it should be legal. It is a drug but like bipolar drugs, it's not a one size fits all. I might work for you and it may not. It's not harmful in my eyes.

[Secretum]

APs are good for sleep. Seroquel is often used for this purpose, though I never tried it. I had a period where I couldn't sleep well for two nights (the first night, I didn't sleep at all), and out of desperation I took some of my PRN zyprexa. Knocked me right out! I'd imagine that taking an FDA approved drug that you can get at the pharmacy would be a lot cheaper, safer, and convenient than tracking down someone to sell you weed, and then having to worry about it being laced with rat poison or something. I have nothing against people who smoke marijuana, it's just too much of a hassle for me.

[Resident Bipolar]

Yes Seroquel (Quitiapine) for my bouts of insomnia is really a miracle cure for me! The great thing is is that it's also a mood stabiliser and therefore stabilises my mood (to a certain extent). I definitely find it easier to sleep with Seroquel than I did with cannabis, that's for sure!

RB.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Resident Bipolar

I've seen people on psych wards with severe psychosis with their Bipolar Disorder - symptoms which were not present before the use of cannabis. THC is a drug, no two ways about it. Drugs pretty much all have possible side effects - paranoia being one of them. I have also experienced first-hand the depression that can follow cannabis use and this can antagonise Bipolar Disorder (for obvious reasons).

Some will have a good experience, some will have a bad experience. It's risky to say the least.
RB.

no offense, but weed is soooooooo mild compared to some prescription dope when it comes to effects. and for most people is in by the night, out in the morning.

It helps me with insomnia and racing thoughts. I am pretty sure anti-psychotics are much harsher on your body.

[manicdepressive07]

Thanks for your replies!

The thing is I'm taking Geodon which is supposed to make me sleepy but doesn't :/ It did the first night but now, nothing. And I have klonopin to take as needed for insomnia but I was looking for something more natural, like weed.

I think I MIGHT try it one night, on a morning where I don't have to work or do anything important and see how it feels. And buying it is no problem because my housemate sells it, LOL.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by manicdepressive07

(Or any other way to self medicate)

Yay or nay?

As I lay here in bed, having the never ending fight with myself to fall asleep, I'm starting to seriously contemplate using marijuana for the sole purpose at easing my mind at night to help me get to sleep. My mind is constantly racing at night and it takes me AT LEAST 2 hours after I get to bed until I fall asleep, sometimes not until 2 or 3am.

I asked for help about insomnia on fb a few weeks ago and got an overwhelming majority vote from my "hippie" Cali friends who suggested I try smoking pot to help me get to sleep. I'm just worried about how it may interact with the drugs I take? (Namely, Geodon). Does anyone else do this or know BP persons who smoke pot for insomnia or use it to self medicate? I even asked my pdoc about it and his only seriously concern was that it was a bad idea because the drug exacerbates being "unmotivated" and having "lack of action" during the day and may cause over eating. (Which I obv don't want since I am trying to lose weight). But I would only be taking this at night, strictly before bed. Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated

1) I eat cannabis chocolate for insomnia. Yes, in Cali, with a prescription, and the doctor who prescribed it specifically told me not to smoke. Either edibles or drinkables (we have marijuana mango lassi, which is decent), or vaporizing, but not smoking due to the damage to the lungs. For me - it was easy. I do not smoke at all - I do not possess the skill of smoking. I also did not want to spend big dollars on vaporizing. So I spent several months trying
different edibles, until I found Tangerine Dark Chocolate with Cannabis by KIVA. Then it took some time to find the right dose, but now I am doing OK.

I also take 30 mg Elavil, with a piece of cannabis chocolate. You can try marijuana alone first, though.

2) No, it does not cause overeating in ME. In my case, I am undernourished right now, due to a combination of thyroid problems which somehow do not get fully fixed by synthroid, and, anxiety (I react to anxiety with nausea and stopping to eat). I also get migraines with nausea, and those also cause me to not eat. So I eat very little right now, much less than I should be eating, and am subsisting mostly on liquid foods (milk, smoothies, V8) to get some nutrients in every day.

3) For a few months, I was on marijuana and geodon, without issues.

4) I am probably not bipolar (was mis dx'd) so I cannot speak to the possible effect on bipolar, but I can tell you that when I did speak about marijuana with the pdoc last year when he thought I was bipolar because he just took over from a prior pdoc, he only advised me that long term use can cause anxiety. It has not done that to me - I am experiencing the same kind of situational anxiety that I am used to experiencing and that I experienced for years before starting to use marijuana. So no change at all.

5) It does not cause being unmotivated. I am motivated and accomplished a couple of creative projects pretty well. When I do not do things that should be done, it is because of anxiety and not because I am unmotivated, and, that kind of anxiety is old news for me, and completely unrelated to pot.

All in all, I recommend it highly.

Oh, and last year when I got my prescription, I was thinking of medicating migraines and insomnia. The doctor told me that most likely I would have success with insomnia; less likely, would have success with migraines. She was right - it did not help with migraines at all, but it does help sleep.

Here is a link to my chocolate:

https://www.stickyguide.com/dispensa...dark-chocolate

It actually tastes very good and does not have the typical taste of cannabis. Does taste good, which is, to me, very important.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Secretum

APs are good for sleep. Seroquel is often used for this purpose, though I never tried it. I had a period where I couldn't sleep well for two nights (the first night, I didn't sleep at all), and out of desperation I took some of my PRN zyprexa. Knocked me right out! I'd imagine that taking an FDA approved drug that you can get at the pharmacy would be a lot cheaper, safer, and convenient than tracking down someone to sell you weed, and then having to worry about it being laced with rat poison or something. I have nothing against people who smoke marijuana, it's just too much of a hassle for me.

Secretum - OP is in California, where we have legal dispensaries that sell stuff that has not been laced with rat poison. You do not have to track down anybody, either - you go to a dispensary and choose what you want to buy. Yes, the dispensary only takes cash, and the employees at the dispensary do have a lot of tattoos and piercings, so there is a bit of an edgy feel to that experience, but otherwise it is just like going to a regular store.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

no offense, but weed is soooooooo mild compared to some prescription dope when it comes to effects. and for most people is in by the night, out in the morning.

It helps me with insomnia and racing thoughts. I am pretty sure anti-psychotics are much harsher on your body.

That is true.

Also, Seroquel, per my p-doc, loses power over time. Then you would need a higher dose. Who wants that? Seroquel can cause weight gain, even at small doses. In some people, it causes nightmares. I hallucinated on Seroquel before I got used to it - I literally heard many big trucks driving through our back yard (it was in a residential neighborhood with a lot of rundown buildings around, and there was no way trucks could have driven into the backyard!). On the right, small dose of Cannabis, I do not hallucinate, but I did hallucinate on Seroquel. So what is more mind-altering, Seroquel or pot?
Seroqel also caused mild constipation, which I hated hated hated because I just must have a perfectly functioning digestive system, without any compromises. Marijuana does not cause constipation.

Zyprexa indeed knocks one out, true. I even used to it switch to a different time zone (12 hour difference), overcoming jetlag INSTANTLY. Amazing? Yes, amazing (normally, it takes me days to adjust to a new time zone). But, also caused weight gain, even after taking it for a few days. So, it is not a mild drug - it is an overkill. It works, can be used PRN for emergencies, but it is NOT a maintenance solution. Pot is a maintenance solution for me because it is mild, keeps being effective, and does not require dose increase (knock on wood). And, Zyprexa and Seroquel cause increases in appetite and overeating - pot (in my experience) does not do that.

Finally, Zyprexa and Seroquel cause sedation and grogginess next morning, but pot does not. I can use pot for insomnia at night, swim in the morning, and then go to work after swimming. Says something about my being perky enough in the morning to swim, right?

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by manicdepressive07

The thing is I'm taking Geodon which is supposed to make me sleepy but doesn't :/ It did the first night but now, nothing. And I have klonopin to take as needed for insomnia but I was looking for something more natural, like weed.

Weed is better than klonopin - klonopin is not a stable medicine. It does not provide consistent results. People get used to it, develop tolerance, start requiring higher doses, until it just stops working, for many people. Pot delivers a consistent, stable performance, and I know people who have been using pot for sleep for decades, without increasing the dose.

I do not understand why you want to try taking it in the morning - you should try it on a Friday night, when you have two weekend nights before you with no morning commitments. That would be the safe way to experiment.

weed does cause panic in some folks, though. So be careful. If it relaxes you, great. Some people get paradoxical reactions to weed.

[EternalWinter]

I certainly prefer it over taking a bigger dose of anti psychotics before sleep. It works but it feels like kind of a way to sort of zombify me into sleep.

With marijuana I feel good in general and begin to wind down about an hour and a half after smoking. I use it every night and will continue to.

However for some with bipolar marijuana is not a good idea and can trigger or worsen bipolar symptoms. So far for me I havent had any of those issues other then a few panic attacks caused by marijuana. I think it had a lot to do of how its hard to get the right amount of your nightly 'dose'. I dont enjoy being too high

Originally Posted by Resident Bipolar

...Some will have a good experience, some will have a bad experience...

This.
Me: no problem. BF: big problem, ie. paranoia. He discovered this long ago and will.not.touch.it., which is saying something for someone who's had substance abuse problems.

As far as sleep, it depends. The individual, type/strain, timing, but not necessarily consistent, which might be due to varying circumstantial things. I don't use it very often for sleep, though I've personally found it generally helpful in that regard (but again, not always effective that way). I also have xanax as an option, and though the results of it are more consistent, I find it harder to get up from xanax and will not take it if the available sleeping hours are few. (Also, I do not take it regularly.) Sometimes I'll take a couple anti-histamines. Sooo, sometimes nothing, sometimes one of above, sometimes two of above, All of above would be unusual.

Not in regard to sleep, but because these things come up in threads on this topic.... For ME....when I say no problem, it's no problem. I have not found it addictive (not even psychologically, let alone physically), but in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not prone to addiction. Hallucinations? No, wouldn't say that. My mind has visually interpreted things differently sometimes since forever, and I note no difference. (I do see/watch things differently, but not in a hallucinatory way.) Overeating. Ok, on this one... yeah, I munch. But I do that anyway. (TG for high metabolism, lol.) Oh. And I prefer it over drinking, hands down.

The only AP I've ever had (Saphris), I had a paradoxical reaction to, and didn't sleep at all. Worst RLS of my life to boot. So I can't really speak to compare/contrast with these.

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

no offense, but weed is soooooooo mild compared to some prescription dope when it comes to effects...

Heheh, I know what you're saying, but this made me giggle a bit, thinking, well guess it depends where you live. In some places the horticulturalists are especially renowned for their skills.

[WrongEverything]

I'm on geodon now and was on it about two years ago before stopping, as a regular smoker of cannabis, I can tell you that I have not experienced anything unusual.

When i'm manic/hypomanic it brings me down a bit physically, while keeping my mind slightly more organized so that I can form coherent sentences, while stringing along my thought train. An improvement over just trying to "catch" topics flying through my mind.

On the other hand, if I'm in a depressed phase, it tends to make me forgetful and slightly lazy(er).

As far as helping sleep, maybe for relaxation, zen mode and all. Never done that intentionally, but I usually don't go to sleep without smoking.. so I couldn't give you concrete yes/no on that XD

[Otter63]

Try taking some food that has some fat in it (peanut butter or something) with the Geodon. It doesn't have to be a lot. My pdoc said you had to have some fat for it to work. I didn't stay on that, and I'm now on klonopin and it's not really working anymore. Grrr!

I have nothing against people who use drugs, either. It's just that all medications leave
an acidic ash (or residue) in the body, and if we take these things daily that acidic
residue can build and put stress on the kidneys to metabolize it within 24 hours
before the next "hit (as slang terminology has it).

A much safer way to get sleep is to try the "lemon thing" I talk about. Both the
lemon and the lime are the most alkaline foods that can be ingested. They taste
bitter, but they are converted in digestion into strongly alkaline residues.
That helps to reduce acidic conditions of fluids and tissues.

The single major objection I have to drugs is that potent ones can kill brain cells;
and I don't know about you, but I need every one I've got! (There was a suggestion
some time ago that marijuana can cause DNA alterations. I don't know if that is
scientifically correct or an assumption someone has made that got attention in the news.)

I just read today that all drugs, whether prescribed or over-the-counter ones, are
considered poisons to the system. Interesting thought, I think. We've had at
least one member here that I remember who used marijuana from the time she
was a teenager, and she reported that it became more potent as the years passed,
and she finally had to go into rehab to get over the addiction (along with an
addiction to alcohol).

It's like cigarettes; there was a time when cigarette smoking was "popular". Later
research proved it to be a major cause of lung cancer, brain cancer, and many other
types, too. (1963 Attorney General's Report)

If it works for you, I'd try to limit it to as little as possible and try everything else
that's natural to try to heal the need for drugs.

Just what life has taught me; that's all.

Take care and I hope you find a healthy, good state of balance all the way round.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Otter63

Try taking some food that has some fat in it (peanut butter or something) with the Geodon. It doesn't have to be a lot. My pdoc said you had to have some fat for it to work. I didn't stay on that, and I'm now on klonopin and it's not really working anymore. Grrr!

When I was on Geodon, I was told that I needed at least a 500 calorie meal for Geodon to work. Not sure this was the right number - just repeating what my then p-doc told me.

[Otter63]

Ya mine told me a couple hundred and he stressed the fat, but it didn't really work. I quit using it because I don't usually eat close to bedtime and doing so was making me gain weight. Maybe it would work if you took it with dinner. I tried taking it in the morning with a big breakfast and I was nearly comatose.

[Resident Bipolar]

Am I the only person here that has occasional panic attacks? It seems to be I can often have a bad trip with strong varieties, so rich in THC you can see it. To me it seems more potent when dry, too.

I have to say I'm disappointed in myself for the amount I spent on weed back in the day of being able to smoke it all day every day and be fine but I do get very easily addicted to substances (weed, alcohol, cigarettes and prescription meds like Seroquel) - I was addicted to all these by the age of 18 (now no longer addicted to the alcohol or weed).

I started smoking it quite a bit more when I got depressed as the giggles I got made me and everyone around me laugh (I usually smoked it socially as opposed to privately). Sometimes it makes me really sleepy but my head spins too much and I feel really ill if I lie down and/or close my eyes.

RB