I have an acquaintance who says he has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He says he was on medication for about a year, but could not tolerate the side-effects so he "worked hard" to come off meds. He practices mindful meditation. He says that he's doing well.

After hearing what he said, I finally admitted to myself that I am really confused. I'm not trying to start a debate with this thread - I feel desperate for answers and I'm hoping some of you can help me out.

When I asked my psychiatrist, years ago, for medication I was bad off. I was an anxious mess, obsessing over horrific fears (delusions) that I would get sick, die, and leave my baby daughter. I was terribly depressed. My husband says that when he looks back at that time in our lives I "never smiled". I do recall the hypomanic feelings (elation, grandiosity, edginess, anger, rage) - but I actually remember the depression and anxiety as a very physical thing...like I'd remember severe pain.

When I started taking meds I remember feeling like I was finally able to perceive clearly, I was able to be objective, my hideous delusional fears and dread were not slamming against me constantly. I felt very close to what I thought "normal" was. I functioned so much better and I clearly remember thinking "I am tremendously fortunate to be living in a time when medication is available to help me".

Whenever I have had a really rough time in life and started to go into that horrifying place of looping thoughts, delusional thinking, endless rumination, worry, dread, terror, call it "depression" or "anxiety" or "agitation" or whatever the label - it doesn't matter I only know I am DYING from the feeling - I have taken medication, and the medication has at best made me feel really good (high-functioning), or at least helped me to get stable enough to focus on my breathing and function enough to live my life & meet my responsibilities day-to-day.

So what's going on? Am I simply fortunate because I respond pretty well to psych meds? Or am I so severely mentally ill that I genuinely require medication to keep me from spending my life (IF I'm alive) in the hospital?

How can someone be bona-fide, no doubt about it mentally ill, choose not to medicate, and live a fairly normal life? Although, the acquaintance I mentioned at the beginning of this post is on disability (he is not employed)...if he opted for meds, might he be able to work? Or is he not as "sick" as I am?

What, really, is going on?

Meds don't necessarily help everyone who takes them. For some people, meds create more problems than help or just don't make a difference at all.

Others respond well to meds with few problems and find they improve life.

Yes, you are fortunate, and honestly, so is your friend that even though he is disabled, he has found a way to live life without those meds since they were causing so many problems for him and at least seems to have found a tolerable level of stability, but he IS disabled. That isn't "normal".

The problems from meds can cause more problems than what a person starts out with in some cases, so this sounds like the friend has had to make a hard choice. That doesn't sound like he's less ill than you. His illness and your illness just manifest themselves differently, have different responses to treatment, and different impact on your lives.

It seems important to you to believe that meds would fix things for him and that if he can function without meds then he must not be as ill. The fact is though, he's unable to work without meds, but he doesn't even really have meds as an option to "fix" things so he can work and is therefore pretty much stuck. Doesn't sound less ill than you at all. Just differently ill. You actually have more options than he appears to have.

[Altered Moment]

@Sister Rags
From what I have seen you post I would consider you very fortunate to have responded so well to psych meds. That is not the case many times. I have switched AD's so many times I can't count them. I think it has always been you warning of the long term effects of benzo's. You want off the k-pin. You are very fortunate if Buspar is working but what if it didn't. Would you take it still? Would you switch to another benzo? So there is the issue of effectiveness for people and whether it is worth it if they don't work so good. Side effects and all of that. I would consider you extremely fortunate on the med front to have done so well for so long. I have stuck with meds as part of my solution for twenty years even though they have not been super effective. I can see where many people in my situation would have dumped them. Don't ask me why but my latest set of meds is working like a miracle. Better than anything I have tried. No idea how long it may last.

Another example of an issue- I have a very good buddy in CA. I happen to be in CA right now and we have been working on my car so my daughter and I can drive it back to Michigan. He has suffered from severe anxiety and panic attacks for years. It seemed to get really bad 12 years ago. He was always convinced he had serious heart trouble and went to the doctor over and over for it. Finally over the years his doctor and I have convinced him he has severe anxiety and there is nothing wrong with his heart. His doctor has done all the tests and blood work. He is as healthy as a horse. He is not completely convinced, it is a long process of acceptance for many, so he has really focused on diet and exercise. His motivation for this has been soley, if I get my heart and body in good enough shape they won't fail me and I won't die. In an attack he obsesses over dying. The doctor has given him xanax. He keeps a large stash of vicodin (for back pain) and xanax but rarely ever takes them. Knowing he has them gives him some relief in case of emergency. He always texts me when he has a severe attack because he knows I can at least convince his he is not dying but having symptoms of anxiety. If it is in the evenings and he is home I can convince him to take two or three shots of hard liquor and it works. He doesn't want to take the xanax and booze is more acceptable to him. I think alcohol is an excellent anti anxiety med (he is not at all an alcoholic or addict) but you can't use it all the time and during the day when you have to drive. In recent months I can convince him to take a xanax once in awhile. He has admitted that it works like a miracle.

So yesterday morning he texts me and says, I am really trippin man, I am dying. I think a blood clot is moving around in my arteries and that is why the pain is moving around. He gets all kinds of physical symptoms, mainly to do with the heart, even pain in left arm. I gave him the same ole line of anxiety not heart and you have to treat the anxiety. He tried to go for his run which he has discovered really works because it burns off the excess energy, makes you tired, and you get the endorpins. It was so bad he couldn't run. I come over to his house and read him a couple of pages off the internet describing his exact symptoms and how they are caused by anxiety. We both joke that both of our brains are whacked.

So as the day goes on I can see that he is really suffering, breathing, TMJ, etc. He stays super busy building and fixing any thing he can get his hands on to distract himself from it. I am there thinking why in the world are you suffering when you know you have a little pill that will knock it right out. Doesn't make sense to me. So I flat out tell him this. He flat out tells me, Zinco if I have to take a pill everyday that means there is something wrong with me. I say, there is something wrong with you. I thought we established that a long time ago. But you see he has accepted it to a certain level but not to a deep enough level that he is willing to take a pill for it. He never did take one yesterday. Him and his family are pretty high functioning. The wife is the bread winner and he takes care of the kids with school and all that and does lots of side jobs. Somehow he has managed to deal with it and be high functioning without meds. He suffers a lot though and it does effect his family in my view. He gets angry and frustrated with the kids real easy and snaps at them because he is fighting the anxiety. You could argue he should take meds because it is not fair to his kids.

The main crux of that whole story is that he has not fully accepted his label and that is why he is so reluctant to take a pill. In his case that was a big revelation to me yesterday. I thought he had accepted it but it turns out not on a deep enough level. I reluctantly explained the problems with benzo's and he doesn't want those. But I may be able to convince him that two or three times a week as needed will never cause a problem. That is when he gets it bad, two or three times a week and the xanax is low dose.

I would never call him irresponsible for not taking them even though it effects him (some days he can't leave the house) and his family because that would be very judgmental on my part and I see how much he is struggling with the whole issue. I am trying to help him through that process. Now that I think about it I may gently point out to him that it does effect his kids. He has probably never looked at it from that angle and I think he is at a point where he would hear it and it might make a difference.

I have been around a lot of mentally ill people from just in general people I have known, group therapy, and being around AA so many years. I swear a third of the people in AA also have some form of mental illness. They go hand in hand for many of us. It seems to me that people with Bi Polar I who have lots of positive mania are the least med compliant. They get on a roll feeling great and stop taking all meds. Then things get out of control or a deep depression hits and the doc has to start all over getting them stable again. Schizophrenics seem to be very non med compliant for some reason. I would guess that is about acceptance of the disease.

Some people have a huge fear of psyche meds and what they might do to whack up their brain and don't want to risk taking them. I think there is a lot of overblown hype around this and unfounded fear but to that person the fear is very real and valid. And neither one of us can deny there are real long term risks and side effects depending on which drug we are talking about that are very much reality based. Reality based or not that persons view may prevent them from taking them. I have heard it over and over in coffee shops in CA. "Screw those psyche docs and their pills, do it with this diet full of herbs and algae." Not gonna work in my view for serious mental illness but there is that culture and someone may have very strong views on it and not trust western medicine. We can all come up with examples of not trusting western medicine.

I am sure there are many other reasons. I don't think it is my place to judge their decisions, even if it effects their family, because I know what a hugely difficult and complicated issue it is to deal with.

In my view the biggest reason is....if I have to take this psyche pill each day there is something mentally wrong with me and I am not willing to accept that. This takes place mostly on a sub conscience level.

From what I know of you you were fortunate enough to have enough education, non stigma, determination to break the chain, acceptance, and very good luck with meds, and willing to work real hard for your family. That is so awesome for you and you should be proud as I am of myself. Many other people are in very different circumstances, or stages of recovery, or not in recovery at all. Have very different beliefs etc. I my opinion it is not my place to judge them but to figure out how I might best be able to help them.

I know I am so long winded. Can't help it.......life time of thinking about it.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

Meds don't necessarily help everyone who takes them. For some people, meds create more problems than help or just don't make a difference at all.

Others respond well to meds with few problems and find they improve life.

Yes, you are fortunate, and honestly, so is your friend that even though he is disabled, he has found a way to live life without those meds since they were causing so many problems for him and at least seems to have found a tolerable level of stability, but he IS disabled. That isn't "normal".

The problems from meds can cause more problems than what a person starts out with in some cases, so this sounds like the friend has had to make a hard choice. That doesn't sound like he's less ill than you. His illness and your illness just manifest themselves differently, have different responses to treatment, and different impact on your lives.

It seems important to you to believe that meds would fix things for him and that if he can function without meds then he must not be as ill. The fact is though, he's unable to work without meds, but he doesn't even really have meds as an option to "fix" things so he can work and is therefore pretty much stuck. Doesn't sound less ill than you at all. Just differently ill. You actually have more options than he appears to have.

In relation to her friend. It could well be that the right meds would work and make his life better and maybe even allow him to work. We just don't know and have to respect his choices and reasons. I think the important question to Sister Rags would be, if he is a close friend, how am I best able to help him in his struggles.

I am kind of big on AA philosophy. I pretty much agree with it as it is simply written in the books. When it comes to individual members and how they practice it or their beliefs or behavior, I may strongly disagree. I think AA can get a bad rep from its members a lot and not for the philosophy itself except for the religious overtones that turn a lot of people off. Any way i digress.

One of the most valuable things I have learned in AA is that it is my job not to judge but to forgive. And that it is my responsibility to be there for the alcoholic who still suffers, or in this case someone who suffers from mental illness. The philosophy says that the way to help is to share my experience strength and hope and not to tell them what to do. Stick to my experience strength and hope. Of course I still judge and try to fix people by telling them what to do, I am not perfect. But "we strive to practice these principles in all of our affairs" and "we are not saints we strive for progress not perfection." There is a lot of awesome wisdom in AA philosophy in my view.

So to the point, maybe Sister Rags shares her experience strength and hope with this person and what worked for her and he may or may not get something out of it. It can never hurt when you stick to your own experience and do not place judgments on what they should do or not do. That is from true AA philosophy but not everyone practices it that way. Many people will tell you what to do rather than what worked for them.

[tinyrabbit]

I think everyone is different. But sometimes when that difference comes up in conversation it can feel very invalidating and make you feel unsettled, can't it?

The thing is, though, that you never really know what's going on in someone else's head, what their coping mechanisms are, how well they're doing, as you're comparing the inside of your life to the outside of theirs.

What matters is that you have found something that helps you and works for you, and that's brilliant.

How can someone be bona-fide, no doubt about it mentally ill, choose not to medicate, and live a fairly normal life?

From the outside, this is me. I am definitely mentally ill and I'm not on meds for various complicated reasons including bad experiences in the past. I don't think that means I'm more or less ill than you, or that either of us is doing it 'better'. I think we can only ever find ways to move the stones from our own paths, and not worry about how other people move theirs.

[venusss]

SR.... there is some statistic that 10% of bipolar people don't get relief from meds.

So imagine yourself how you were before meds AND ADD SIDE EFFECTS TO IT. Imagine yourself with bad case of bipolar... and medically induced psychosis, anger issues, severe disabiling physical side effects... or whatever some people go through.

So such person can either give up... or pointlessly try yet another med hoping maybe the 51st one will not give them horrible side effects and lose ability to process their thoughts or adjust their life to accomodate their disorder. Their choices seem to be unmedicated suck or medicated suck AND side effects (some probably gruesome).

If you found immediate relief and handle the side effects well, then yes, you are fornunate. It shows your body metabolizes drugs well, not really your level of illness.

Great thread folks - thanks for all the input. Please understand that I am not judging anyone. Except maybe myself. When the guy I know told me he's bipolar and keep it controlled with mindful meditation, well...I've been practicing mindful meditation for decades and it's a wonderful tool - but I have to be stable enough to practice it or I just hear all kinds of frightening voices or thoughts or whatever they are when I try to meditate. Then I get all agitated & anxious and go into terror mode & get physically sick, can't eat, etc. So when the person I know told me he's bipolar and med-free I thought, "Wow. I guess I'm really mentally disturbed, because I can't function normally at all off meds". Am I weak? Am I not trying hard enough? I feel like I try SO FREAKIN' HARD to be "okay". I felt pretty afraid, and very confused...so I posted this thread.

I've been on somewhere around 30 meds over the past 3 or so decades. This past year has been the toughest...meds haven't worked nearly as well as they used to. I have always had med side-effects that are miserable (I'm half "checked-out" all of the time, I used to be naturally thin and graceful - I've gained 100 lbs. from meds - and WOW does the world treat a thin woman differently than it treats a fat woman!!, dizziness, my cognitive intellect is impaired from meds, etc....the side-effects are no fun at all and they do concern me), but the side-effects are just slightly more tolerable to me than the craziness is.

Zinco, it's true that I sought psych help at age 17 because I saw the serious dysfunction in my family and the terrible damage it did. I was determined not to carry that mess on and I also knew (even as a kid) that there was "something" very wrong with certain aspects of myself and I wanted help. There was no other way for me, except to get that help and break those sick cycles.

I don't have any great insights or words of wisdom. I always feel sad about being mentally ill because it has severely impaired my life. I guess opting for meds has been the best way for me to cope with the demon MI.

[Altered Moment]

I know exactly for you feel. 20 years on the med train. Never that effective. Chosen as apart of solution. I wish there were better ones. As hard as I have worked my whole life on it, it is still there big time to the point of total dysfunction. Why I just got so lucky on the current set I have no idea. I don't know how long they will work before I may be debilitated again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I guess the bottom line is that however you do or don't treat it mental illness sucks.

[Altered Moment]

Yes. I also have practiced meditation and mindfulness all these years. Helps in so many ways. Hasn't put a dent in the depression like according to the history of it. When in one I can still meditate but it will not touch the depression.

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[venusss]

I don't think it's about strenght as much as it is about mode of thinking.

Will try to explain myself... there is Korean movie from psychward... I am cyborg, but that's okay. The main girl is supposedly a schizophrenic who suffers a delusion that she is a cyborg. She tries to "charge" herself with electricity and refuses to eat (because food would destroy her cyborg insides). Meds fail her, they try ECT on her and it does nothing to her delusions... she is finally partially helped by a fellow patient who tells her he is going to installs some rice processor in her, that will allow her to process food into energy. Another crucial moment is that when she "confesses" to a nurse she is a cyborg, the nurse tells her that it is okay...

I know it's a movie, but the take away is... if you cannot treat your symptoms in standard means... that's where you need to be extremely resources, find a help to accomodate your world into the big world (that is what I am talking when I speak of MI being problem because of the interactions with the outside, rather then a solely internal problem). However delusional may your solution sound, it if works, if it's not harmful to you and others... then it may be a good one.

One of my problems are intrusive thoughts, or what I call "flashvisions". They are very vivid... and sometimes very disturbing. How I deal with them? With complex guided imagery. It involved body shields, growing myself huge azz wings, or even phoenix like rebirth (I do deal with death visions quite often, especially but not solely in the state right before sleep).
So I fight my visions with more visions... would it be doable in all occasions? No. Is it a cure to my problems? Nah, it's just a way to cope, more or less.

Another thing is to stop fighting all the symptoms... and realize they are what are.... it's hard to simply not fear the feared.... but imho it can be achieved slowly.
Again, this is about personal stance and approach to these issue, imho. There is some recent initiative "target zero symptoms to thrive" which I disagree with, because I think it can lead to obsessively watching out for symptoms and seeing each one as sign of impending relapse. I am more for distress tolerance and learning to expand your comfort zone and being functional (at least partially) within the episodes. To a degree it's possible to distance yourself from the episode and not being emerged in it. It takes time, resourcefulness and also somewhat supportive/calm environment for yourself. It depends on many factors.

I depend on my spirituality a great deal. I go inside self a lot. I realize that my perspective of the world is much different from how normal people percieve things... I am far from a normal chick. But it's the best I can do for now.

[A Red Panda]

Mental illnesses are well... spectrum disorders. Each of us have different levels of how intensely symptoms manifest, and some symptoms will be more pronounced in one person than in another. It doesn't make either person more or less ill... just that each have different experiences.

I have bipolar 2. I'm currently on meds, but I don't require them to function "normally". This is because my symptoms manifest in a way that they don't severely impact me - or at the least, I know how to mask them or manage them.

Like... when I'm depressed? I can make my sorry butt get out of bed and go to work. I can even make myself smile and pretend that I'm happy. But on the inside? I'm wishing I was dead. At home, I won't clean as much and my eating habits go out the window. I sleep a lot more and it's always a bad quality of sleep. I'll start to isolate myself and I won't take as much care of myself as I should. But I can make myself presentable enough to get through life.

When I'm hypomanic, I have a fairly tame hypomania as my baseline is quite low. I'm tempted to spend more money or be more promiscuous and I want to drink and party a lot more. I manage these by having rules which I follow at all times, including when I am not hypomanic. Sometimes I'll break my rules, but not all that often. So that keeps the damage to a minimum.

I chose a job where I can fluctuate between high and low energy (teaching) and it definitely does affect that... but some school activities are more suited to low-energy and others to high-energy, so I can manage it that way.

It's when stress really shows up that I start to falter and break down.

Does that mean that I am less bipolar than your friend who is unemployed? No. It just means that the particular symptoms that affect me the most are ones which I can hide or manage.

Valuable input...thanks, everyone.

I have decreased my Zoloft dose from 100mg to 75mg. I (and my p-doc) believe that the higher dose of Zoloft is causing an increase in anxiety/agitation. Third day of the decrease and while I feel ever so slightly less anxious, I also feel a bit more depressed. This afternoon when I thought about going to work (which I normally enjoy) I almost started to cry. When that happened I said to myself, "Whoa...you're feeling depressed. What are your options?" I thought of mindful meditation, but I practice that and it just seems to make me focus more on feeling sad. "Just noticing", rather than identifying with, my emotions is helpful to me, at least for a short while. Suddenly, it occurred to me that I think I am hyper-hyper-sensitive to my own emotions. I've heard people say, "I feel like I'm allergic to my own emotions" - that's what I feel like. My emotions, my feelings, seem to make me feel mentally and then physically sick. Medication sometimes helps me feel more resilient, less "allergic" to my own emotions. Meds help the pain be more blurry and less sharp.

I wonder if people who tend to feel "allergic" to our own emotions are more likely to turn to meds than people who can better withstand the fluctuations of their emotions?

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

I wonder if people who tend to feel "allergic" to our own emotions are more likely to turn to meds than people who can better withstand the fluctuations of their emotions?

Great question!

I personally could.not.stand how meds dulled down my emotions and my responses... Felt so utterly wrong, foreign, uncomfortable, and Terribly unsatisfying to live a watered down version of my life... I was only medicated for 2 years, but was never able to adapt to my new emotional reality.

And I don't mean that I love the drama of bipolar episodes, its just that it became unbearable to have happiness without elation or euphoria, or to have sadness that doesn't pierce my heart...

Idk if I make sense

Ps. This is not why I quit my meds, altho (to me) its an obvious perk.

[venusss]

I wonder if people who tend to feel "allergic" to our own emotions are more likely to turn to meds than people who can better withstand the fluctuations of their emotions?

You mentioned your family was messed up... were you brought up with that some emotions aren't okay? Could it be some past experience? Did your emotions ever "betray" you in the past?

*just thinking*

[pawn78]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

Mental illnesses are well... spectrum disorders. Each of us have different levels of how intensely symptoms manifest, and some symptoms will be more pronounced in one person than in another. It doesn't make either person more or less ill... just that each have different experiences.

I have bipolar 2. I'm currently on meds, but I don't require them to function "normally". This is because my symptoms manifest in a way that they don't severely impact me - or at the least, I know how to mask them or manage them.

Like... when I'm depressed? I can make my sorry butt get out of bed and go to work. I can even make myself smile and pretend that I'm happy. But on the inside? I'm wishing I was dead. At home, I won't clean as much and my eating habits go out the window. I sleep a lot more and it's always a bad quality of sleep. I'll start to isolate myself and I won't take as much care of myself as I should. But I can make myself presentable enough to get through life.

When I'm hypomanic, I have a fairly tame hypomania as my baseline is quite low. I'm tempted to spend more money or be more promiscuous and I want to drink and party a lot more. I manage these by having rules which I follow at all times, including when I am not hypomanic. Sometimes I'll break my rules, but not all that often. So that keeps the damage to a minimum.

I chose a job where I can fluctuate between high and low energy (teaching) and it definitely does affect that... but some school activities are more suited to low-energy and others to high-energy, so I can manage it that way.

It's when stress really shows up that I start to falter and break down.

Does that mean that I am less bipolar than your friend who is unemployed? No. It just means that the particular symptoms that affect me the most are ones which I can hide or manage.

This sounds almost exactly like me.
I have been a functioning bipolar for most of my life without meds.
Even though I am bipolar 1 with a few rare, infrequent psychotic episodes, most of the time I just have mild depression and mild mania, or mild mixed state.

I finally decided to go to a doctor and get meds, because my wife and children are getting emotionally hurt by my irritability and bad moods....plus, with my history, I don't want to end up in the emergency room in a straight-jacket screaming crazy stuff...That was horrible.

[Confusedinomicon]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

Valuable input...thanks, everyone.

I have decreased my Zoloft dose from 100mg to 75mg. I (and my p-doc) believe that the higher dose of Zoloft is causing an increase in anxiety/agitation. Third day of the decrease and while I feel ever so slightly less anxious, I also feel a bit more depressed. This afternoon when I thought about going to work (which I normally enjoy) I almost started to cry. When that happened I said to myself, "Whoa...you're feeling depressed. What are your options?" I thought of mindful meditation, but I practice that and it just seems to make me focus more on feeling sad. "Just noticing", rather than identifying with, my emotions is helpful to me, at least for a short while. Suddenly, it occurred to me that I think I am hyper-hyper-sensitive to my own emotions. I've heard people say, "I feel like I'm allergic to my own emotions" - that's what I feel like. My emotions, my feelings, seem to make me feel mentally and then physically sick. Medication sometimes helps me feel more resilient, less "allergic" to my own emotions. Meds help the pain be more blurry and less sharp.

I wonder if people who tend to feel "allergic" to our own emotions are more likely to turn to meds than people who can better withstand the fluctuations of their emotions?

Lowering an anti-depressant can give you kickback depression and brain zaps. It's generally because your brain stops naturally producing neurotransmitters that the medication provided/substituted for. Usually called serotonin withdrawal. Not everyone experiences it though.

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

You mentioned your family was messed up... were you brought up with that some emotions aren't okay? Could it be some past experience? Did your emotions ever "betray" you in the past?

*just thinking*

Hi Venus, the answer is Yes. My mom was, in many ways, an amazing woman. She was also mentally ill. The home in which I grew up was physically violent, there was constant emotional abuse,there was sexual abuse. I have a very clear memory of being 12 years old, my mother going crazy on me, and I told myself that I was a Vulcan (like Mr. Spock). Because I was a Vulcan I had no emotions. I remember standing in the room, my mom screaming at me and then she hit me and I felt very proud of myself because, like a true Vulcan, I did not cry or feel any emotion. A sad thing for a 12 year old child to feel proud of

[Cocosurviving]

Question: How can someone be bona-fide, no doubt about it mentally ill, choose not to medicate, and live a fairly normal life?

My reply: I have wondered this question toward my younger sister. She had BP2 has went a long period of time with with my meds or episodes. This is what pisses my off she gets frustrated when I'm triggered. She felt like I should have bounced back to a "normal" person right when I got out the mental hospital. She went so far as to tell me I need to stop talking about BP and put it in the back of my mind like it does not exist. I told her that I was not as fortunate as she was. I'm not in remission. I can not just go off my meds and smoke pot. She's living a "fairly normal life" in remission, smoking pot and looking down on me as the sick BP sister.



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[r010159]

I think there are many MI people that see being functional as only one of their options. Then there are those who see being functional as their only option. Also IMO it is important to understand this getting well as being a process instead of an end result, one process that likely will last the rest of their life. I think the consideration of both of these premises is very important to ones future mental health and ability to function in society.

FWIW

@VenusHalley I also have those flash visions. There have been days I thought I was losing my mind. And your idea not to fight the symptoms but learn how to operate within the framework of the disability is excellent advice!

[Skitz13]

I've learned mindful meditation and had a lot of CBT and DBT but I just find that when I'm in whatever episode I don't use it because I just can't be bothered. Just my mindset, I guess. I need to get more motivated

[wing]

[QUOTE=r010159;3770145]I think there are many MI people that see being functional as only one of their options. Then there are those who see being functional as their only option. Also IMO it is important to understand this getting well as being a process instead of an end result, one process that likely will last the rest of their life. I think the consideration of both of these premises is very important to ones future mental health and ability to function in society.

FWIW

I am considering these statements. They make sense.