[lawrenman]

Hi all,

I've been off an on Zyprexa for a long-time.

The biggest issue I have with the drug is withdraw symptoms.

I think the issue is night cramps resulting from elimination of the benzo portion of the drug.

"The most frequent symptoms of withdrawal from benzodiazepines are insomnia, gastric problems, tremors, agitation, fearfulness, and muscle spasms"

Directly from Wiki.

Now I know my Pdoc says its not truly a benzo, but the major issue I have is muscle spasms.

For me, if I am off my medication long enough it results in shock. My legs and arms will go into complete shock, and the last time it happened they gave me an Ativan and I was completely fine afterwards.

So I guess my plan is to take Zyprexa every so often just to control my withdrawal symptoms and to control my mania which does also come back in true form as my cramping also becomes worse.

I guess my mind and body is reliant on the benzo's thus creating a cycle that is hard to break.

Just wondering other people's thoughts on this. I deal with Mania, and I control it with Zyprexa only and possibly heavier medication (single doses) if at a hospital or something.

Please assist. Would love to hear comments.

[lawrenman]

Also I would like to comment that Zyprexa is very effective for me when I am on it. Unfortunately, its very hard to lose weight and keep in shape when on it.

So I am attempting to lose weight when off it and then getting back on it when I am comfortable while maintaining my weight.

I have lost 55 lbs since Feb 2014 based on an Atkins/Paleo diet. Atkins first than I converted to a Paleo when the Atkins became ineffective. The Paleo has been very effective and I have not felt this phyisically fit in years.

My BMI is 28-29 so I still have a way to go. But I'm below my original weight I was at when I was first diagnosed bipolar 3 years ago.

[Angelique67]

There's no benzo at all in any aap. So try to get a scrip for Skelaxin or tizanidine which are both muscle relaxants and easy to come by (easier than benzos) and good luck.

[~Christina]

Can you and your Pdoc agree on a weight neutral medication? The half life is 21-54 hours.. Zyprexa is one that needs to be tapered off of.

[lawrenman]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

There's no benzo at all in any aap. So try to get a scrip for Skelaxin or tizanidine which are both muscle relaxants and easy to come by (easier than benzos) and good luck.

thienobenzodiazepine = olazapine

That is close enough to a benzo IMO.

And I have been on it / off it enough to know its true effects. Its a benzo. Only masked somewhat by its sulfur compound thieno.

But anyway up because of the leg cramping...will try to go back to bed. All I know is the cramping stops me from getting into my deep sleep pattern most nights and that is sad.

[hamster-bamster]

I use Zyprexa for sleep PRN. Sometimes I use it to quell anxiety and sometimes, hypomania. It helps. Not always, but almost always.

I never have any withdrawal. I may use it for 1-3 days (from 5 to 15 mg depending on the severity of the problem) and then not use it for 3 weeks.

But that is fairly beside the point - do ask the pdoc if he/she can refer you to a neurologist. For me, if the side effects are, say, GI-related, I would not be worried, but if they are neuro-musculature-related, I would want someone to reassure me that I am OK. Cramping would get me worried.

On a completely different note, I have a genetic tendency to leg cramps and both my late mom and her mom had that. Since I started taking this supplement:

Natural Calm PLUS Calcium

I have not had any incidents. It has been 6 months. I usually have incidents at least every 3 months, so I think this supplement is helping.

What I especially like about it is that it makes a hot fizzy drink with a pleasantly tart taste - 8 oz - and I take my nighttime pills/capsules with it. It feels comforting.

[lawrenman]

hamster-bamster:

I think you are right on. I need to check my leg cramping issue with my family doctor and go from there. I do think its a serious issue.

It also happens to me quite a bit post workout (mainly walking) or if I walk around a grocery store for awhile perhaps an hour without sitting.

Then coupled with the shock incidence its certainly scary stuff.

I've been told its an electrolyte imbalance...however if my body goes into shock twice before a blood test is taken I'm pretty sure my blood sample will show reduced electrolytes LMAO and it wasn't like my body was not intaking plenty of it via my diet.

So I'm pretty certain the shock and cramping comes from benzo withdraw but I agree its time to check the problem with my family doctor.

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by lawrenman

thienobenzodiazepine = olazapine

That is close enough to a benzo IMO.

And I have been on it / off it enough to know its true effects. Its a benzo. Only masked somewhat by its sulfur compound thieno.

But anyway up because of the leg cramping...will try to go back to bed. All I know is the cramping stops me from getting into my deep sleep pattern most nights and that is sad.

No, it really isn't still a benzo. You need to get your doc's input on this and what to do for the cramping.

[lawrenman]

Well there are a lot of things with something in its name that people don't consider it truly that.

Its funny to me how often people say something is not something even though its called that.

If it has benzodiazepene in its structure I'm gonna say its a benzo. And I've been on and off it for 3 years so I can certainly say what I feel is that it works like a benzo.

And it works well. Don't get me wrong. I love the drug.

[Angelique67]

I was on it for several months too. Put on 60 pounds. If the pdoc had considered it a true benzo he never would have let me near it. But I'm not saying it can't work for you. Why go off it abruptly though? You'd need to taper as Christina said.

[lawrenman]

Its not the short term withdraw symptoms that bother me...its the long-term withdraw symptoms.

When my mind needs ativan or something after being off the meds for 2 months that does bother me. So does daily waking up with leg cramps. Or other inopportune times for it which I don't need to explicity mention.

And I always taper down...thats as easy as ramping up the meds.

[Angelique67]

How long do you taper for? It should be for weeks if not months.

[Tucson]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

No, it really isn't still a benzo. You need to get your doc's input on this and what to do for the cramping.

I agree with this. Do your research on the Internet to look for withdrawl symptoms of the drugs you are on. Better yet, ask you doctor about it who you are paying to help you. I just do not think you understand what is behind the classification of a particular set of drugs. Tegretol and Trileptal is a case in point. They arppear to be metabolized differently by the body even though they are analogs.

I can see that benzos and Zyprexa have similar effects on you. So in this case, I would take the suggestions others have made here. But please stop playing doctor with your meds. You should be working with you pdoc on this. After all, he is the one who has the medical degree and experience with meds.

All of the suggestions made above is JMVHO. I wish you well.

PS: I think this was a trigger for me related to IMO people playing doctor. My apologies.

PPS: I have been on Zyprexa for over 15 years. I never had any withdrawl symptoms, including long term. I was on Clonazepam. I had this terminated too quickly. It was hell for me as a consequence.

[lawrenman]

Supposedly Zyprexa has no withdraw effect based on my internet research...LMAO. Any drug labeled as having zero withdraw has to certainly be questioned...highly effective, but zero withdraw WOW I'll take it.

As for playing doctor, I do what I can. I'm not going to wait until I get depressed like I did the first time around before I adjust. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I have not been depressed in 2 years since my first episode of mania. Since then, I've made sure I wasn't too high Nor too low.

What I am doing to control my mania is less scientific. I'm controlling my exposure to light to slow mania and walking more often to work on my cramping issues.

Here is what I think, its easier to cage an animal or poison an animal than to tame it properly. That is what is happening to Aggressive MEN in our world. They are being replaced by aggressive women, controlled by a few alpha males.

Such is life. All I'm doing is working on self-control and being honest. That is all I can do.

[Tucson]

Originally Posted by lawrenman

Supposedly Zyprexa has no withdraw effect based on my internet research...LMAO. Any drug labeled as having zero withdraw has to certainly be questioned...highly effective, but zero withdraw WOW I'll take it.

As for playing doctor, I do what I can. I'm not going to wait until I get depressed like I did the first time around before I adjust. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I have not been depressed in 2 years since my first episode of mania. Since then, I've made sure I wasn't too high Nor too low.

What I am doing to control my mania is less scientific. I'm controlling my exposure to light to slow mania and walking more often to work on my cramping issues.

Here is what I think, its easier to cage an animal or poison an animal than to tame it properly. That is what is happening to Aggressive MEN in our world. They are being replaced by aggressive women, controlled by a few alpha males.

Such is life. All I'm doing is working on self-control and being honest. That is all I can do.

I understand. Please be careful. I medicated myself with prescription drugs like Zyprexa for a year. I was very successful, more so than any doctor before that time. But I know better now due to a side effect a doctor was required to treat.

So just be careful. OK?

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by Tucson

I agree with this. Do your research on the Internet to look for withdrawl symptoms of the drugs you are on. Better yet, ask you doctor about it who you are paying to help you. I just do not think you understand what is behind the classification of a particular set of drugs. Tegretol and Trileptal is a case in point. They arppear to be metabolized differently by the body even though they are analogs.

I can see that benzos and Zyprexa have similar effects on you. So in this case, I would take the suggestions others have made here. But please stop playing doctor with your meds. You should be working with you pdoc on this. After all, he is the one who has the medical degree and experience with meds.

All of the suggestions made above is JMVHO. I wish you well.

PS: I think this was a trigger for me related to IMO people playing doctor. My apologies.

PPS: I have been on Zyprexa for over 15 years. I never had any withdrawl symptoms, including long term. I was on Clonazepam. I had this terminated too quickly. It was hell for me as a consequence.

I went through a horrible Klonopin withdrawal too - still going on actually. How about you, is it over (yet)?

[Tucson]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

I went through a horrible Klonopin withdrawal too - still going on actually. How about you, is it over (yet)?

Even though it took some time, I am over the withdrawl effects. The worst was the initial few weeks. Hell on earth. No offense.

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by Tucson

Even though it took some time, I am over the withdrawl effects. The worst was the initial few weeks. Hell on earth. No offense.

None taken. Yes, without a doubt. But I can't get rid of the panic, dizziness and tinnitus and nerve pain. It's been since spring of 2013.

[BipolaRNurse]

Ye gawds. Remind me never to come off Klonopin. I've been on benzos for about a dozen years---used to take Ativan nightly, then that pooped out and I went on Vitamin K about a year and a half ago. I still use the Ativan on occasion when I'm really knotted up and can't sleep. Can't even imagine life without benzos.

[Angelique67]

Neither could I. A nurse forced me off benzos against my will. If you do it voluntarily and very slowly it works better (withdrawal) but it's still hard.

[~Christina]

You can go IP and they can detox you completly right off them pretty painlessly. (Benzios)

[Angelique67]

I was inpatient and I'm still in withdrawal after over a year. The drug is out of my body but my brain has not reset. And it was hell although I appreciated being somewhere I'd get fed.

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

I was inpatient and I'm still in withdrawal after over a year. The drug is out of my body but my brain has not reset. And it was hell although I appreciated being somewhere I'd get fed.

Wow ! Sorry your still having such problems.. Is there anything that can be done to help you? What does your Pdoc say to do ?

[Angelique67]

I haven't got one yet. As far as they're concerned, it's over. It's not! They shouldn't have done it, it was against my will. Several others here are suffering from the same thing.

[hamster-bamster]

All I can say on the benzo vs non-benzo is that for me, speaking from experience, benzos do not work at all and Zyprexa works most of the time. Yes, I use it as one is supposed to use benzos, to quell anxiety and get some sleep. If benzos worked for me, I would not be using Zyprexa, but they do not work.