Is bipolar really the cause of your mood swings?

Well yes, this is indeed a very interesting article.

I don't think I can fault much on what the author wrote in the article.

It's a pity that in my case I fell into the category of "Undiagnosed" - only received a diagnosis at age 31 - when CLEARLY the symptoms, for me, personally, had been present since a late teen.

I was originally diagnosed just depressed.

I mean it's easy to go to your doctor when you're feeling down? Get some tablets?

I never saw my doctor when I felt "happy haha" what for? I didn't think I was "sick"

As I have regular pdoc appointments they can tell my mood state just by looking at me ( how I dress and respond to questions etc). As mentioned I can wake up depressed one day with no trigger and that can be more frustrating than having something obvious trigger it. Stress really is my only trigger and it doesn't matter if it is excite able good stress or tough distressing stress, either way sends me into an episode ( usually depression, occasionally mixed and less commonly hypo). Most of the time I deal with it but when it gets to the point I'm Sui it's time for inpatient because I am dangerous and impulsive during episodes.

What confuses me about this is that I definitely have mood swings within mood states.

For instance, I'll use depression as an example since I'm currently depressed and I'm certain that I get depressed. I'm also pretty certain I get mixed. I am not certain if I get hypo or manic.

This week I've had a baseline of moderate depression, but at times my mood has swung up or further down due to external triggers being present or removed, some that I am more sensitive to due to being depressed.

Does that happen to people with BP? Mood swings within mood states?

Also: The "yo-yo" thing. Can that not happen in mixed states, if there is switching back and forth from one state to the other? I understand mixed states involve both happening at the same time, but have also read that switching from depressed to hypo/manic can take place in mixed states as well.

Its common for most ppl with bp to have "atypical depressions " eating more especially carbs sleeping more and ability for mood to be temporarily lifted from external factors
But its still a major depressive
Switching can happen. In my last bad mania i was manic for a long while would shoot down for days into black come back up to mania
I shot waay back down and was in mixed.landed in hospital
When i first got there i was a wreck that wanted to moan in hell in bed begging themvto drug me to sleep to escape the internal torture
As i was medicated i started switching one day euphoric manic awesome..mysteries of earth...next bed misery pain. Was on seroquel and started lithium. The day i went home i was hypo. Came right home went for a jog (i dont run lol) but in the next coming days lithium took over and stabilized me.

And the pdoc at hospital said it can and does happen ...and he had been working in hospitals for like a 1000 yrs lol. He was awesome

I think people with bipolar can take meds and become stable. They do not have a fear of abandonment, black or white thinking or feelings of emptiness.
There is no medicine officially made just for borderline.

Form this website:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/bipola...er-difference/

You can have emotions with-in mood states - like you can experience happiness while in a depressive episode, just as you can experience saddness in a manic episode but these are emotions and not mood states. I think that is where people get confused. You can experience the whole range of emotions and during hypo/mania they may be enhanced and during depression they may be dulled, but you still experience them.

I can be depressed and function almost normally, but I still can have my full range of emotions, albeit sometimes dulled.

Those that feel emptyness and lack of emotion during mood states are more likely to have a personality disorder. But this is not the diagnosing factor.

The definition of mixed on this site seems to be very different to that of what my pdocs tell me and that of which I am studying. My mixed is BOTH at the SAME time, not switching between the two and it is certainly not called rapid cycling according to my care team. I really should look up some definitions but there is so much WRONG information on the internet about bipolar. I am picking up one of my study books today which may have some correct information in it that I can share. Or I may learn something new! I just dont trust the internet as a soild reliable source of info (well apart from google scholar which has all sorts on mixed eps)

Do you know why this is?

There seems to be two kinds of emptiness: visceral and depressive. The visceral type appears to be associated with lack of identity and is present without depression. The other type seems to be associated with the profound and overwhelming sadness that is a part of depression. I'm familiar with this, because I've felt it before (and only) during two severe depressive episodes. It felt like a deep ache that permanently trapped me in the land of nothingness. The fear caused a sense of overwhelming hopeless that felt impossible to get out of. The empty-like feeling that I felt inside my head was due to the distorting despair. When the depressions lifted that feeling disappeared.

I have to disagree with you supanova on a couple of points...
And a kind word in jest...every student of this subject may think thy know it all...its a commin psych student phenomenon. ..but its not true lol
So emptiness is waaaaay common in depression and almost a defining factor sometimes...it is only one thing on an obscure list in a personality disorder
Number twO....my mixed episodes were also always both at the same time...i went mixed and then as i was medicated out of it i went back and forth which the pdoc working at an acute care psych ward......aka no computer phone leave allowed......and you never got there voluntarily. ...said it happens. And it happened to me
U mention u self harm. ...a million pdocs right there would automatically put u as borderline....but we both know that dosent make you borderline

An important thing that could have been added to that article is that Bipolar and BPD are not "one or the other" diagnoses. They can be co-morbid conditions

Bipolar life has it's ups and downs

Currently experiencing slight relapse into depressive episode but overall stability for almost a year!

+1. Self harm is a sign of emotional distress or an urge to harm oneself. Self harm can be present in those diagnosed with Depression, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Bulimia, Personality Disorders, Autistic Spectrum Disorders, Bipolar, OCD, hell, any psychiatric disorder can lead to self harm.

Bipolar life has it's ups and downs

Currently experiencing slight relapse into depressive episode but overall stability for almost a year!

Exactley!
But i know a million ppl who self harmed in bp distress and got labeled bpd
Thy use to and may still say...this is not a common phenomenon in bipolar

Didgee, I think that is an interesting distinction, and I think you're onto something there. It brings to mind that the word "chronic" is used in regards to feelings of emptiness in description of BPD symptoms. It's an on-going perception.

The feeling you describe in depression resounds with me. It sucks.
There is just so much nothingness. Especially with anhedonia.
But we ride it out, and it goes away. TG.

*********
Mr. Robot

Makes me sick to the heart, Oh I feel so tired. And the way the rain comes down hard, that's how I feel inside.

--The Cure

I mostly agree with you. Just one point I disagree with is the feeling of emptiness. A symptom of Depression itself is feeling empty and/or numb (source: Depression: Recognizing the Emotional Symptoms). I feel empty when I am deeply depressed. Feeling empty or numb constantly is a different matter though, so feeling constantly empty or numb regardless of state is more a sign of a Personality Disorder than feeling empty or numb during a depressive episode is. Also remember that some medications can cause a feeling of numbness, so that may be as an effect of the meds rather than the disorder itself.

Your definition of a mixed episode is the correct one. It's a mix between symptoms of mania and depression which exist concurrently. Hence its as straightforward as it sounds; it's exactly what it says on the tin - a mixture of manic and depressive symptoms. This doesn't mean cycling between two different states.

As for rapid cycling, it is not a diagnosis in itself. You cannot be diagnosed with "Rapid Cycling Bipolar Disorder". Rapid Cycling is an episode descriptor, or more accurately a "course specifier" and isn't a permanent thing, in the vast majority of cases. It isn't a mixed episode, or even similar to one. Only around 10-20% of Bipolar patients are thought to experience a rapid cycling state at some point in their lives.

I do think you're right about having emotions during episodes, like anybody else would during eurthymia. We all have good days and bad days, or good hours and bad hours in fact, so I don't see why that would be different during a depressive and/or manic episode.

Bipolar life has it's ups and downs

Currently experiencing slight relapse into depressive episode but overall stability for almost a year!

Sorry I can quite comprehend what you are saying here? Chornic emptiness is very common in BPD, and while it can be experienced by people with BP it is only during depressive episodes to my knowledge.

SH is present in many disorders but as I do not fit the criteria for BPD it has never been suggested that I have it.

Sorry Supa, you just basically said what I said in the post before this, so ignore my part about the emptiness issue because it seems we're in agreement about that anyway.

Bipolar life has it's ups and downs

Currently experiencing slight relapse into depressive episode but overall stability for almost a year!

You posted just as I was writing my post, agree with you completely.

One of Dr. Goldenberg's main treatment focuses is with addiction and he seems to lean toward behavioral, rather than biochemical, treatment. In looking at where he's coming from I'm suspicious of his generalized statement that "bipolar is this, it is not this". It seems to me that his perspective uses a rather outdated model of bipolar disorder; I believe the definition of bipolar disorder is more flexible than Dr. Goldenberg has asserted.

And I am starting to believe that Bipolar DSM criteria is being evolved to fit people with symptoms of personality disorders cos it is so much easier to slap the label of BP for insurance and medication reasons and shoo you out the door without so much as a referral to therapy that may cure symptoms.

Probably shouldnt post that as Im heavily medicated and might not be thinking straight haha but we all have times like that on here.

(I think it was a typo in post #27 that caused the confusion…)
Now that that's sorted… Seems we're all in agreement.

*********
Mr. Robot

Makes me sick to the heart, Oh I feel so tired. And the way the rain comes down hard, that's how I feel inside.

--The Cure