[neodoering]

I posted this message on the schizoaffective forum, because that is my disorder, but you bipolar people have the reputation for being smart and creative, so I'll open a discussion over here, too!

So, are we all geniuses, PC members? Certainly most of us are mad folk. Here is an interesting article on the supposed link between madness and genius and creativity: What Neuroscience Has To Say About The 'Tortured Genius' | The Huffington Post. The upshot is that some researchers believe there are links, and some don't. But you don't have to be mad to be creative, or to be a genius; creativity is a trait everyone has, and what it needs is development by individuals and society.

My own feeling is that genius and madness probably have little to do with each other. Overwork, too much stress, trauma, an unhealthy lifestyle, poor adaptive skills, and losing the genetic lottery have more to do with mental illness than genius or creativity do. Probably a lot of really smart and creative people exaggerate their "mental illnesses" to sound cool and garner sympathy, and a myth is born.

Here is another article on madness and creativity: Fine line between genius and madness, scientists find - Telegraph. These researchers found that certain genes correlated with both creativity and madness, but some genes showed higher chance of major creativity than others. This is interesting because it goes back to the genetic lottery I mentioned before. One gene expression gives you creativity; another gives you madness.

I am going to take a risk and claim to be a literary genius. Certainly I am a madman; maybe I got a double gene? I have written a novel which I think demonstrates my gifts. If there are any MacArthur Foundation nominators trolling these forums looking for people dumb enough to claim to be geniuses, get in touch! I'll clue you in on why I'm a literary genius. In case you want to judge the work itself without my input, you'll find it here: http://www.rdoering.com/temples.html. Scroll partway down the page, and you'll find the book as individual chapters or a whole unit. I've shown this book to a number of people, and the comment that comes back most often is: "It's pretty... What is it?" What it is, is genius.

[emgreen]

I like your style! It's always bugged me that some folks claim their "madness" makes them special/exceptional. To paraphrase you..."Some is & some aren't." I have an M.A. & consider myself somewhat intelligent, but it has nothing to do with BP. It has to do with hard work, & sometimes knowing when to back off when my symptoms become too bad. Overall, BP has been more of a hurdle than an asset.

I had a class in college which stated that there are at least 40 different types of intelligence...IQ being but one. There are many different types of intelligence - from creative intelligence, to social intelligence, to mechanical intelligence, etc. Suggesting BP is a primary cause of any of them is a stretch. If nothing else, "madness" makes us stronger, or it breaks us. In my case, when I'm well, it makes me stronger...Not more of a genius than anyone else.

[rwwff]

I dunno, I could see genius as making one susceptible; but also more able to endure the strain of less than psychotic mania for some time. Or they may both be facilitated by a similar atypical brain structure or chemistry; thus they may both occur, but neither causes the other.

On the exaggeration thing; I'd like to make a counterpoint, if we just look at IQ type intelligence, its not hard to end up in a job where it is very easy to note, objectively, something interfering with your cognitive function. Particularly, complex, mathematical/modelling tasks. When the same task goes from 3 minutes to 7 minutes; consistently, you know something is up. Or at least I did. I've always managed my stress levels very carefully, avoided all recreational substances, never been to a party, bar, and rarely even a restaurant or movie. So I never had that episode that would lead to hospitalization... the scary reality, is that in one or two more iterations, if I'd broken while depressed, I'd have completed a suicide without saying a word to anyone; or manic, would just have ended up as a typical sport, "grey hair dies doing something far beyond his capacity".

I do think they set the bar too low on using the term, "genius" though. 3rd SD of whatever type of smarts is certainly potent enough to make a substantial difference in performance; but having some contact with 5th SD people, I can assure you, the difference is staggering.

[Icare dixit]

Psychosis/mania is in essence creativity, I'd say. Enough to change your reality.

[Moose72]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Psychosis/mania is in essence creativity, I'd say. Enough to change your reality.

Yes! ......

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Psychosis/mania is in essence creativity, I'd say. Enough to change your reality.

I don't believe I can argue with this statement.

[neodoering]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Psychosis/mania is in essence creativity, I'd say. Enough to change your reality.

I will be a dissenting voice and say this is not true. Madness is not creativity. Madness is malfunction. It is a mistake, a disorder, and a terrible blight. After it passes you can treat its debris creatively, but while you are going through it, madness is not only NOT creative, it ROBS you of your natural, hard-won creativity. It is a thief and a murderer, and it is unwise to romanticize it.

[Icare dixit]

I tried thinking of it as a serious illness and I feel better already.

No one said creativity is fun.

Having BP is to romanticise. That's all it is. That's what life is. We're just more creative romancers.

[zijax]

High IQ or Genius has nothing to do with being Creative. Two different animals. Left brain, right brain.