[CaminoDeOro]

Lately I've been wondering about a trait I have and which I've noticed in other bipolar friends / support group buddies, at least the ones who aren't so anxious that it keeps them in their shell most of the time. I don't think all bipolar people have this but I'm curious how many know what I'm talking about. I also wonder if it's related to empathy.

I use the analogy of a fluorescent light bulb. You put electricity through the bulb and the gas inside emits ultraviolet light. The coating on the inside of the bulb then absorbs the UV and re-radiates it as visible light.

I've noticed that this happens to me and some other bipolar types but with emotions rather than light. Get us in a certain situation and we not only absorb the emotional "energy" but then concentrate and re-radiate it. This can be annoying or exhausting for others at times, and sometimes downright destabilizing when we are doing it with people with their own mental health challenges.

As an example, I like long lively conversations, and I tend to get high off them. Like I may start out normal or even in a bad mood, but as the conversation goes on I start quite literally getting high (brief hypomania) and past a certain point I start re-radiating the energy, I talk too much or too fast and I need to start watching what I say and do.

I'm curious how common this may be among bipolar people.

It can be pretty intense when you get two people like this together, BTW. I made a new friend in a therapy group recently and they gave me a ride home once and we sat talking and got high off each other - I thought it was just me at the time but it was both of us. Then we hung out for real and holy crap, it was one of the most high-impact few hours I've spent with anybody in years! It rang my bell hard - for me the aftereffects were pleasant, even though I was not stable for a couple days. My friend on the other hand got pretty badly destabilized and it messed the weekend up

Friend is not diagnosed bipolar currently but I have a suspicion they are misdiagnosed and may have bipolar II as I do. Anyway, thank god we are both self-aware enough that we could talk about it and agree to step back and take the new friendship nice and slow to avoid another flashover like that This is not the only example of mutual resonance in my life, my best friend is bipolar I and we have a version of it, but it doesn't destabilize us.

[Slightlydelusional]

Originally Posted by CaminoDeOro

As an example, I like long lively conversations, and I tend to get high off them. Like I may start out normal or even in a bad mood, but as the conversation goes on I start quite literally getting high (brief hypomania) and past a certain point I start re-radiating the energy, I talk too much or too fast and I need to start watching what I say and do.

I can relate to this part. I can be pretty quiet a lot of the times but once I get into a long conversation and see the person Im talking with is lively too, I get into a high state and get out of control.

[Blaire]

I relate to that part too. I get very high off people who laugh a lot. I cross a threshold during a conversation where I start to think and act erratic. Then there's always a rough crash. It's something I'm very aware of and work to control.

I'm also very empathetic, and I do think empathy could explain why we take in the energy of others and magnify it.

[CherryGlazer]

I only experience something like this with my friend who also has bipolar. It seems like we get each other and either lift or mellow each other out, depending on where we are.

[99fairies]

i read somewhere that social interaction can increase seratonin levels.

[Unrigged64072835]

I have a normal friend who is a lively conversationalist. If we start on something funny we'll be riding off of that for hours. I'm normally the shy, introverted type.

[Sunflower123]

I'm shy and introverted as well. I am also highly empathetic and take on other's moods so I think that's it. If the synergy gets too high though I always have a low follow that.

[CaminoDeOro]

Yeah, my friend I had the hyper-intense hangout with 10 days or so ago is not diagnosed bipolar (I have a hunch that's wrong but whatever) and I guess crashed pretty hard afterward. They didn't go into a lot of detail, at least not yet. I was quite unstable for a couple days after but my mood was generally good. That friend is also super high empathy, to the point where it causes them problems (can't deal with killing a bug for example due to horror over what it might feel).

I went to my psychologist today and brought it up and he said ON AVERAGE bipolar people tend to be less empathetic than the general population when they're too far up or too far down, but normal when they're stable or in the middle moodwise. He said I'm an exception due to having very high empathy, and that selection bias is probably why most of my friends, including the bipolar ones, have high empathy. Simply put, I'm drawn to those people so there are more of them in my friends group, which includes bipolar people.

He also brought up the idea of mutual resonance, especially between two bipolar people - both spinning up into a feedback loop which, as happened with my new friend 10 days ago, can sometimes turn into a runaway feedback loop. At the same time, one of my bffs is bipolar and we absolutely have mutual resonance but not of the type that will turn into a runaway feedback loop. It's self-limiting for whatever reason.

I'm pushing 40 and there is always more to learn. I guess I just have to be mindful of this stuff, especially when dealing with friends who are also unstable. If I can learn to remember to recognize when it's happening, it will help... I'm pretty good at dealing with other people's and my own needs in a social context IF I am aware that it's an issue.

[Blaire]

It surprises me that he said bipolar people are generally not more empathetic than the normal population. I would have thought otherwise. I myself am highly empathetic. I guess it's true that I pick friends who are too, though.

[CaminoDeOro]

So my situation with my friend had what rocket scientists call a "rapid unscheduled disassembly." This hit me pretty ** hard. In fact I'm just now rolling out level after a serious mood crash.

About 8 hours after that, I realized that I need to go off my ADHD med. It keeps aggravating my bipolar, pushing me toward mixed/hypomanic states. When I get into one of those, I tend to trample people's boundaries, either because I don't recognize them, don't recognize when people are signalling me to chill out, or because I get caught up in my own momentum.

That's what happened here. Which sucks, this was the type of person you only meet every few years, in terms of potential to be a really compatible friend.

[Icare dixit]

Interesting and phenomenally self-transcendent. Very nice breath of fresh air.

It's definitely resonance (mutual is redundant), which does mean you have to be (pretty much) on the same wavelength and (in) phase.

The phase difference also explains the dampening or amplification.

It's an MDD, BP and BPD thing as far as I know.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Interesting and phenomenally self-transcendent. Very nice breath of fresh air.

It's definitely resonance (mutual is redundant), which does mean you have to be (pretty much) on the same wavelength and (in) phase.

The phase difference also explains the dampening or amplification.

It's an MDD, BP and BPD thing as far as I know.

I think it's a human thing?
It may be a Sentient Being thing?

Interesting.


WC

[Nammu]

Sounds like you are discribing an extrovert. Anything like this only happens when I'm manic.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by Blaire

It surprises me that he said bipolar people are generally not more empathetic than the normal population. I would have thought otherwise. I myself am highly empathetic. I guess it's true that I pick friends who are too, though.

You forgot the "during mania or depression" (I paraphrase) bit.

If you (to some extent) self-transcend into mania, you aren't in touch with anything personal.

Depression is a bit different. The real lows are (as far as I know, at least generally and certainly in my experience) atypical and exactly because the constrast between the lows and (resonant/amplified) highs is so great, the highs are further amplified (because of the positive feedback loop). So basically indeed just resonance, where our waves are stronger and longer than usual to begin with.

Problem is that it can make us unstoppable.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

I think it's a human thing?
It may be a Sentient Being thing?

Interesting.


WC

I agree it's also just a human thing. But so are MDD, BP and BPD, just more extreme in some respects. It's interesting that what happens to be more extreme are emotions (and empathy), which is what we're discussing here.

But of course the negative emotion(s) are interesting as well. Strong, potentially destructive shortwaves. And the anxiety disorders are interesting not because anxiety is something alien to humans, but because in those disorders it is (what's in a name?) more pronounced.

Edit:
MDD is interesting because it's not associated with strong (positive) emotions, but it's still like BP and BPD in these group dynamics. It's interesting that BP is like BPD because BPD is far less stable and more easily influenced. Nevertheless, the dynamics are pretty much the same while just one "normal" person is more likely to be a negative influence (that may reinforce stronger emotions but not due to resonance, but due to overall pressure).

[liveforsummer]

That is totally interesting. I know that if I'm in a conversation with someone or a group and it's a topic of great interest I will start talking faster and getting excited and have to watch what comes out of my mouth cause I know at times I think I almost feel embarrassed by my animation. Wish I had a close friend with BP that lived close by to bounce this stuff off of (as well as the PC peeps!)

[LonesomeTonight]

Not sure if this is the same as you're describing, but I am very empathic and can often sense what someone else I'm in the room with is feeling. If, say, they're feeling anxious, then it's like I feed off that anxiety and start feeling more anxious myself (this is often an issue with my mother-in-law). Or if they're sad/depressed, then I might feel more sad around them.

I guess the same can happen if they're happy, that it can be infectious. I'm an introvert, but I sometimes feel a sort of "high" after a conversation with, say, a friend who is more upbeat and talkative. And I end up being more talkative with them than I normally would be. Yet too much of that "high" can be exhausting, too.