[LittleMissKillJoy]

I am well seasoned in the mental illness game, but my recent mood episodes are like nothing I've experienced before. I understand I need to get a professional diagnosis and I am working on that, but for right now I'd like to hear from you guys what you think.

I've been having episodes that have lasted anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours but never lasting over a day. They will come from nowhere and half the time they'll go just as quickly as they appeared.
I understand that there is such thing as cyclothymia, but where I'm confused is that cyclothymia is supposed to be a 'milder' form. I feel like these episodes are pretty darn intense to be considered mild- the only thing that may be considered mild about them is that they don't last for as long as a person with a typical bipolar profile, but otherwise they seem to meet most of the criteria.

Hypomania: I seem to have two types. One type I act as though I'm intoxicated- I have uncontrollable hyperactivity, impaired self restraint, goofy and silly, talkative, racing thoughts, inappropriate laughter, relentless optimism (like you could tell me i had cancer and i'm sure I'd still be sunshine and roses). Then there is the second type, where I turn into a totally different person. I have more energy, but I can control it. While my normal personality is people pleasing, thoughtful, self doubting, horrific self confidence, anxious and always finding a way to put blame upon myself, when I get in this state I'm feeling pretty darn good about myself. The anxiety is gone and I become very self absorbed. I only care about what I want, and if I upset people then its probably their own fault or they deserved it. I feel confident in what I have to say is right and like nobody can tell me anything I don't already know. Nothing can upset me, and my greatest concern is with myself and sustaining the happiness and confidence I'm feeling and I'm much more confrontational. I feel like this is not 'grandiose' compared to others stories, but for my personality its COMPLETELY out of character.
Depressive: My depressive episodes aren't anything like what I've experienced with depression in the past. My general day to day mood is a constant, mildly anxious state. Not too much sadness. But then, just seemingly from nowhere, BAM i go from zero to one hundred and I feel like the world is ending. I either become so sad that I can't move (I had trouble closing my store at work because I curled up in the floor and just laid there feeling like a zombie) and numb, or I'm crying hysterically. Sometimes I'm crying at absolutely nothing- people will ask me why and I say I don't know but I'm just so sad. Often I'll have a bit of both. This is diferent than my regular depression in the past. I would have a constant state of sadness, and fluctuations where I would feel extra sad. Even when I had fluctuations, they wouldn't ever come on this intensely this fast. It was more gradual and I could feel the impending sadness approaching. Not with this- I don't really have much if any warning.

I've had episodes occur in the same day. One time I went from arguing with my dad, being obnoxious and telling him how rude he was and storming up the stairs in a huff thinking how stupid and awful he was, to being half way up the stairs and feeling like a meteor hit me and collapsed into hysterical sadness.

I had a few episodes that were super spaced out before they suddenly became pretty consistent. I usually have days inbetween episodes, but I've gone about a month without one before, and I've also had them consecutive days/every other day.

This has been really interupting my life and creating a lot of difficulty for me and even though I know I must wait for results from a physician, I'm anxious to have at least some idea of whats going on. Does this sound like a type of bipolar? I had one person suggest schizoaffective disorder. What symptoms may that entail in addition to symptoms that resemble bipolar disorder? Is schizo always about seeing things and hearing voices? Do delusions have to be persistent or can they be short lived? I apologize for so many questions, I'm new here, if you have any insight on any of they they're greatly appreciated. Thank you so much to all!

When people talk about such rapidly shifting extremes of mood, I tend to think of Borderline Personality Disorder first as I think it's more common than such ultra rapid cycling in bipolar. But I don't know how old you are or how long this has been going on for you, and we can't diagnose anyway. There is also the fact that severe stress can cause huge mood swings, as can medication side effects/withdrawal (and not just psych meds) if you've changed doses any time recently, and even hormones such as PMS, starting/stopping birth control, pregnancy/miscarriage, peri/menopause etc.

Schizoaffective requires all of the criteria for schizophrenia to be met with a mood disorder, so you would need hallucinations/delusions, negative symptoms, cognitive deficits etc on top of a mood disorder and outside of a mood episode. Cyclothymia, as you said, is less extreme cycling.

What I suggest is to see a psychiatrist and, whilst you are waiting for your appt, try to chart your symptoms and what is going on in your life that might be triggering them, so that will help them get a clearer picture of what you are dealing with.

All the best,

*Willow*

[Guiness187055]

Are you on meds?

[Icare dixit]

Has your depression much to do with you being "obnoxious"? If so, it might be borderline personality disorder. In some ways BPD is more like schizoaffective disorder than BP is. You can have both or you can have BP and BPD. It's not uncommon.

Very short-lived (and relatively mild) delusions are a part of BPD. Mild and less chronic negative symptoms are a part of BPD as well. More chronic delusions (and, often, hallucinations) and more chronic and more severe negative symptoms are more likely to be part of schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia. But since the positive symptoms are chronic, you won't recognise them as such or you're at least you won't really believe they are delusions and/or hallucinations (without meds).

It's possible to experience mania and depression both in one day. It can change every few hours, minutes or seconds (and they may seem to be blended together). If these changes aren't influenced much by external factors, like being obnoxious or not being amongst people, it might be BP. If they are in general, it's more likely BPD.

It's easier to distinguish mania from depression if you experience them in rapid succession. It may therefore be that you experience longer episodes, but you don't realise it.

[LittleMissKillJoy]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

When people talk about such rapidly shifting extremes of mood, I tend to think of Borderline Personality Disorder first as I think it's more common than such ultra rapid cycling in bipolar. But I don't know how old you are or how long this has been going on for you, and we can't diagnose anyway. There is also the fact that severe stress can cause huge mood swings, as can medication side effects/withdrawal (and not just psych meds) if you've changed doses any time recently, and even hormones such as PMS, starting/stopping birth control, pregnancy/miscarriage, peri/menopause etc.

Schizoaffective requires all of the criteria for schizophrenia to be met with a mood disorder, so you would need hallucinations/delusions, negative symptoms, cognitive deficits etc on top of a mood disorder and outside of a mood episode. Cyclothymia, as you said, is less extreme cycling.

What I suggest is to see a psychiatrist and, whilst you are waiting for your appt, try to chart your symptoms and what is going on in your life that might be triggering them, so that will help them get a clearer picture of what you are dealing with.

All the best,

*Willow*

Thank you so much Willow- So schizoaffective is essentially just schizophrenia with a mood disorder?

I have been charting all my episodes and keeping a journal. I am 19 yo female. I have been on 120 cymbalta for years. My mood episodes were getting progressively worse, and as a result came down to 90 mg cymbalta. They were worsening before the change. I have now been on 90 cymbalta for three or four months. Since this, my symptoms followed the pattern they were before the medicine change. While I understand its possible that my medication change could play a part, I strongly believe that this is not the only cause and that there is another underlying issue going on.

Unfortunately, my therapist whom I've worked with for years is moving and I now am in the process of finding a new one. Meanwhile, on my medical team, the process for getting my diagnosis re-evaluated is being delayed.

Thank you for your insight!

[LittleMissKillJoy]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Has your depression much to do with you being "obnoxious"? If so, it might be borderline personality disorder. In some ways BPD is more like schizoaffective disorder than BP is. You can have both or you can have BP and BPD. It's not uncommon.

Very short-lived (and relatively mild) delusions are a part of BPD. Mild and less chronic negative symptoms are a part of BPD as well. More chronic delusions (and, often, hallucinations) and more chronic and more severe negative symptoms are more likely to be part of schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia. But since the positive symptoms are chronic, you won't recognise them as such or you're at least you won't really believe they are delusions and/or hallucinations (without meds).

It's possible to experience mania and depression both in one day. It can change every few hours, minutes or seconds (and they may seem to be blended together). If these changes aren't influenced much by external factors, like being obnoxious or not being amongst people, it might be BP. If they are in general, it's more likely BPD.

It's easier to distinguish mania from depression if you experience them in rapid succession. It may therefore be that you experience longer episodes, but you don't realise it.

Wow, this was great information! BPD isn't something I'd looked into too much. My delusions definitely seem to resemble that more than they do schizo IE being mild and shortlived. I don't know that they're delusions until after my episode is over, as that is when they happen.
The 'obnoxiousness' for me is part of the personality change that happens during some of these hypomanic episodes. I don't have them when I'm having a depressive one- I'm an emotional wreck, but I retain my personality and who I am. But with the personality change that I have durring some of my hypomanic episodes, I kinda turn into a bit of an asshole. I just say whatever I want without filter.
You may notice in my signature that I have tourettes syndrome, and while this does cause some impulse control I consider it to be absolutely nothing like what I experience during the manic episodes. For example, w tourettes, you may be talking and i can't help but blurt out my answer before you finish. I don't consider it to play any significant role in whats currently going on.
With this, i may suddenly have the gumption to be your personal critic and tell you some of the things I think you need to fix/change about yourself, even if these things are hurtful. Normally if I were to have a conversation on a sensitive subject like that, I would put a lot of thought into how I plan to say it and try to make the conversation constructive instead of critical/bashing. Part of my obnoxiousness is becoming blunt to a fault and judgemental (when I normally make it a point upon myself to go out of my way not to judge or make assumptions about others)

[LittleMissKillJoy]

Originally Posted by Guiness187055

Are you on meds?

I have been on 120 cymbalta for years. My mood episodes were getting progressively worse, and as a result came down to 90 mg cymbalta. They were worsening before the change. I have now been on 90 cymbalta for three or four months. Since this, my symptoms followed the pattern they were before the medicine change. While I understand its possible that my medication change could play a part, I strongly believe that this is not the only cause and that there is another underlying issue going on.