[Cocosurviving]

Hello there,

I have read many post saying bipolar symptoms were present from childhood or teen years. My experience was not like that and I don’t understand why. When I was a teen I was just irritable and depressed. However I never had anything else. Then in 2011 at the age of 35 I had a hysterectomy and after my moods were all over the place. My primary care doctor put me on Cymbalta. However it made me sleep too much. Then she put me on Celexa. I flipped into full blown mania but did not know it for months. After a second opinion I was diagnosed with bipolar one. My question is why is it that I never became manic before taking Celexa? I’ve been on meds since being diagnosed and I’ve dealt with hypo as well. Why is it I’ve never been hypo or mixed before taking meds? Growing up I never had hypersexuality until I started taking meds. I never drove wreckless until I started taking meds.

[MoodyMountain]

SSRI's trigger latent manic episodes pretty frequently, and it only takes 1 lifetime manic episode to meet bipolar 1's requirements- it doesn't matter if an SSRI was the trigger. I had cyclic depression as a kid and I never got manic or mixed until my late 20's or 30's.
I did have hyper-sexuality as a child from like 5 or 6. I guess everybody has different symptoms at different times.

[Gabyunbound]

What I have read is that the most common onset of BP symptoms is in one's early twenties. I think it is quite unusual for them to start as children, just as BP is quite unusual in children. No offense to anyone, but it could be that it seems like it was Bipolar in hindsight (as a kid), but in fact was something else (or would have been diagnosed as something else, in any case).

I had been put on low doses of antidepressants for some years with no full blown mania, though with cycles of depression and hypomania. But the point is, is that those meds -themselves- did not send me into full blown mania. That was, until I took Wellbutrin. So why some meds didn't have that effect, and one did, is beyond me, frankly. It could have been the dosage, I don't know.

I wouldn't question your diagnosis based on what you are saying. It could be that the symptoms of BP happened to coincide with when you started taking meds.

I would bring any questions you have to your pdoc. S/he should have the knowledge and experience to be able to explain what you are describing.

Sometimes meds can trigger hypo/mania in people but it doesn't mean the person actually has bipolar: https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/1...der/30300.html

Antidepressant medication can induce a “manic switch” in patients with depression, but manic-switch episodes are currently not considered bipolar disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV

I suppose it's possible that antidepressants triggered your bipolar, though. I don't know if that is true or false, but just a suspicion of mine. I mean, there have been studies about the onset of schizophrenia and weed use. It's a controversial topic with schizophrenia, but I'm just using that as an example.

I'm not trying to say you DON'T have bipolar. I'm just pointing out that there are other possibilities and I think it might be worthwhile to talk to your pdoc about them to get to the bottom of it. On the flip side, you can also do a full psychological evaluation like I did and that can unveil some good information.

But here's the thing... Whether you have BP or not, antidepressants clearly trigger manic symptoms for you. You obviously need something in addition to an antidepressant if you need the antidepressant for your depression. So, I guess my point is... maybe it doesn't matter what your Dx is. If your antipsychotic stops the manic-like symptoms from antidepressants, then maybe your meds are fine and the Dx doesn't matter.

[Cocosurviving]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Sometimes meds can trigger hypo/mania in people but it doesn't mean the person actually has bipolar: https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/1...der/30300.html





I suppose it's possible that antidepressants triggered your bipolar, though. I don't know if that is true or false, but just a suspicion of mine. I mean, there have been studies about the onset of schizophrenia and weed use. It's a controversial topic with schizophrenia, but I'm just using that as an example.


I'm not trying to say you DON'T have bipolar. I'm just pointing out that there are other possibilities and I think it might be worthwhile to talk to your pdoc about them to get to the bottom of it. On the flip side, you can also do a full psychological evaluation like I did and that can unveil some good information.


But here's the thing... Whether you have BP or not, antidepressants clearly trigger manic symptoms for you. You obviously need something in addition to an antidepressant if you need the antidepressant for your depression. So, I guess my point is... maybe it doesn't matter what your Dx is. If your antipsychotic stops the manic-like symptoms from antidepressants, then maybe your meds are fine and the Dx doesn't matter.

This is true. Thank you for the good information. It does not bother me to have bipolar one disorder. It’s just I was misdiagnosed with depression, then PTSD, Adjustment disorder and PMDD. I just want to get to the darn truth no matter what it is.

[pirilin]

The worst drugs are sold in a pharmacy.

Interestingly enough, med-induced mania was excluded as counting towards a dx of BP in DSM IV. In DSM V, it is counted as a diagnostic criteria. Go figure.

[Pookyl]

Originally Posted by Cocosurviving

Hello there,

I have read many post saying bipolar symptoms were present from childhood or teen years. My experience was not like that and I don’t understand why. When I was a teen I was just irritable and depressed. However I never had anything else. Then in 2011 at the age of 35 I had a hysterectomy and after my moods were all over the place. My primary care doctor put me on Cymbalta. However it made me sleep too much. Then she put me on Celexa. I flipped into full blown mania but did not know it for months. After a second opinion I was diagnosed with bipolar one. My question is why is it that I never became manic before taking Celexa? I’ve been on meds since being diagnosed and I’ve dealt with hypo as well. Why is it I’ve never been hypo or mixed before taking meds? Growing up I never had hypersexuality until I started taking meds. I never drove wreckless until I started taking meds.

My diagnoses were triggered by removal of my uterus and ovaries.
On this forum many have bipolar triggered by abuse/neglect, but irl especially when I’m inpatient, I’ve noticed bipolar triggered by all sorts of causes.
My pdoc says she’s noticed in women a peak in diagnoses in the early 20’s and a second slightly smaller peak in the 40’s.
Btw, it’s so nice to finally meet someone online who maybe has bipolar that was triggered for the same reason as me.

[Cocosurviving]

Originally Posted by Pookyl

My diagnoses were triggered by removal of my uterus and ovaries.

On this forum many have bipolar triggered by abuse/neglect, but irl especially when I’m inpatient, I’ve noticed bipolar triggered by all sorts of causes.

My pdoc says she’s noticed in women a peak in diagnoses in the early 20’s and a second slightly smaller peak in the 40’s.

Btw, it’s so nice to finally meet someone online who maybe has bipolar that was triggered for the same reason as me.

Wow very interesting. Thank you for replying

[Unrigged64072835]

Since I was already diagnosed with BPD many professionals didn't think I had bipolar. I never told anyone about the manias, either. I may have had an inkling of it but it wasn't until after I was started going through perimenopause in my 40s that other people noticed. It wasn't until my former pdoc put me on a mood stabilizer instead of yet another antidepressant that I had bipolar. And I started feeling better.

[*Laurie*]

Supposedly BD can manifest anytime from childhood on into the adult years...20's...even 40's. Personally, I believe I had bipolar symptoms as young as age 4. I experienced a very odd, extremely intense type of rage at that time. I definitely had symptoms of both depression and mania when I was a teen.
That said, it seems that many people don't show bipolar symptoms until adulthood.

As for med-induced BD there seems to be quite a controversy over it.

Add in hormonal/endocrine changes and moods can go wild. Menopause for me was sheer hell as far as extremely severe anxiety (which my pdoc referred to as 'dysphoric mania').
Truthfully, what do I think? I think that psychiatry is a new and inexact science. Yes, there are certainly some givens, but there sure is a lot of inconsistency with regard to diagnosing. I believe that one day, eventually, many years from now, gene therapy will be the treatment for mental illness and meds won't even be used at all - at least, not the meds we know of today.
I very well understand how and why you are questioning your diagnosis. Are you thinking that perhaps you have unipolar depression?

[UpDownAround]

I question mine when I am as stable as I have been for the last year. All I have to do is stop the meds to confirm it though. I want to break that cycle. It is hard; I really hate taking daily meds and I get these nagging doubts about whether I really need them because I haven't had any trouble for so long.

[~Christina]

Being that a AD sent you manic it’s possible that you do not have BP.

That said you must have symptoms that need attention.

Maybe you just have say GAD , sleep issues etc etc , not sure if I’m making sense I’m a bit foggy lately.

I say if you question maybe get a second opinion

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

I question mine when I am as stable as I have been for the last year. All I have to do is stop the meds to confirm it though. I want to break that cycle. It is hard; I really hate taking daily meds and I get these nagging doubts about whether I really need them because I haven't had any trouble for so long.

That is a very good point.

[Cocosurviving]

I would not question mine if I had symptoms “before” being put on meds. Today I spoke to a friend that works at NAMI. Her daughter has bipolar one. She said her daughter had symptoms from an early age. First the psychiatrist thought she had ADHD. Then later in middle school the stimulants made her worse. She took her back to the psychiatrist and he figured out she had bipolar one. My point is her daughter had symptoms even before taking meds.

I called my primary care doctor’s office and left a message requesting a refer for a psychiatrist (MD or PhD).

[pirilin]

According to my new shrinkette, nothing that you do under the influence of anything, counts in a Bipolar diagnostic.
It has to be an spontaneous manifestation. She changed my diagnostic from a 1 to a 2. Just to save face.
I never went manic without the help of something.

I suffer from MDD. No matter how many shrinks insist in my Bipolar.
The proof is that the first AD that was given to me, made me feel like myself again.

[BipolaRNurse]

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

I question mine when I am as stable as I have been for the last year. All I have to do is stop the meds to confirm it though. I want to break that cycle. It is hard; I really hate taking daily meds and I get these nagging doubts about whether I really need them because I haven't had any trouble for so long.

I know that feeling well. I get to thinking I'm not bipolar after all, and/or that I'm just making it up. (Like you can fake mania.) Or simply that my providers have made things look more serious than they really are. Stinkin' thinkin', that is. And when my mind starts wandering in that direction, it's a sure sign that trouble is on the way.

So every so often, I'll stop taking the antipsychotics because I hate them, but it doesn't take too many days before I become agitated and irritable. Fortunately, I always get scared and go back on them before I flip into mania. I enjoy hypomania (and fooling with my meds is a guarantee that I'm in it), but don't actually want to get full-blown manic because that never ends well and I can do an incredible amount of damage in the meantime. I spent myself and my family into bankruptcy TWICE thanks to my champagne tastes (and a beer pocketbook). I also fly into intense rages, causing me to feel guilty once I come down and try to make up for all the horrific things I said and did during the manic spell. I've lost friends and even a couple of family members because of it.

That's what I try to remind myself of when I get too big for my britches and question my diagnosis, which really IS as bad as I've been told it is. Five different mental health professionals have diagnosed me as bipolar, four of whom classified it as bipolar 1. I know I should take it more seriously and stop all this nonsense, but when I'm hypo it's really, really hard.

[Cocosurviving]

Originally Posted by BipolaRNurse

I know that feeling well. I get to thinking I'm not bipolar after all, and/or that I'm just making it up. (Like you can fake mania.) Or simply that my providers have made things look more serious than they really are. Stinkin' thinkin', that is. And when my mind starts wandering in that direction, it's a sure sign that trouble is on the way.


So every so often, I'll stop taking the antipsychotics because I hate them, but it doesn't take too many days before I become agitated and irritable. Fortunately, I always get scared and go back on them before I flip into mania. I enjoy hypomania (and fooling with my meds is a guarantee that I'm in it), but don't actually want to get full-blown manic because that never ends well and I can do an incredible amount of damage in the meantime. I spent myself and my family into bankruptcy TWICE thanks to my champagne tastes (and a beer pocketbook). I also fly into intense rages, causing me to feel guilty once I come down and try to make up for all the horrific things I said and did during the manic spell. I've lost friends and even a couple of family members because of it.


That's what I try to remind myself of when I get too big for my britches and question my diagnosis, which really IS as bad as I've been told it is. Five different mental health professionals have diagnosed me as bipolar, four of whom classified it as bipolar 1. I know I should take it more seriously and stop all this nonsense, but when I'm hypo it's really, really hard.

I can understand your point. In my case I’ve only been diagnosed bipolar one by one psychiatrist. And that was while I was on 40 MG of Celexa with no mood stabilizer. I was told I had depression at first for years. Then PMDD and adjustment disorder. I started another thread and everyone that replied said they had bipolar symptoms before taking “any” meds. Like as a teen or in their 20’s they would get manic or hypo. I never had that happen and I need to know why.

[Pookyl]

Originally Posted by Cocosurviving

I can understand your point. In my case I’ve only been diagnosed bipolar one by one psychiatrist. And that was while I was on 40 MG of Celexa with no mood stabilizer. I was told I had depression at first for years. Then PMDD and adjustment disorder. I started another thread and everyone that replied said they had bipolar symptoms before taking “any” meds. Like as a teen or in their 20’s they would get manic or hypo. I never had that happen and I need to know why.

I was told it was possible to have depression as your first ‘mood’ in a ‘mood disorder’. In fact, they questioned that in my case.
However, I was never put on meds until I was manic at 43yrs of age.

[Cocosurviving]

Originally Posted by Pookyl

I was told it was possible to have depression as your first ‘mood’ in a ‘mood disorder’. In fact, they questioned that in my case.

However, I was never put on meds until I was manic at 43yrs of age.

I left a message for my primary doctor on Monday requesting a referral to a psychiatrist. I also explained I do not want someone that is going to just spend 10 minutes with me. My primary doctor is really awesome. She does not rush. She is thorough and looks through my meds for side effects. I just want to talk with a psychiatrist and have them listen. Then explain if they think I do indeed have bipolar one or just depression. I was only diagnosed bipolar one by one person while on a AD with no mood stabilizer.

[Tucson]

I respect how you are feeling about having doubts about your diagnosis, but to me it comes across as a rationalization on your part. This is how it is sounding to me. We BPers are quite good at this. I think this ability should be considered as a symptom of BP. Many of us have an incredible capacity for this rationalization when it comes to our disgnosis. For some, this rationalization never goes away. Or do I call it a delusion by then?

I have had symptoms when I was in grade school. This explains allot of my behavior back then. Episodes of mania to substantial depression. As usual, I was first formally diagnosed with clinical depression. The BP diagnosis came in my 40s. So do not confuse the time of the first onset of this MI, which may be very hard to pin down, and the date the person was formally disgnosed with BP.

So personally I do not think BP just shows up during the middle of our lives. Maybe that is when it has become more problematic. As a consequence the formal diagnosis comes later too. There is always being able to get a second opinion. Still with one person, having six or seven “second opinions” still did not prevent them from doubting their diagnosis at a later time. I think this is even when they ended up in a psych ward. Several times. Each time they stopped taking their medication, not believing they have a MI.

I do think this extreme is not that uncommon. Here is a kind of litmus test. Has the person such as yourself actually considered the very real possability that the reaon they feel better is because their meds are working? There is a reason they including yourself are on meds in the first place. I guess it is the nature of the MI.

So my suggestion would be to get a second opinion. Who knows? You may be correct. Furthermore, the side effects can sometimes be worse than the problem the meds are attempting to treat. I wish you well in getting to the truth of your matter. BTW I wish I did not need these nasty meds!

[Cocosurviving]

There was another thread on here... we have so so many. A lady was diagnosed as bipolar and it turned out to be something hormonal instead. For me and one other person I’ve came across in the BP section. We started having severe mood swings after having hysterectomies. Then we were diagnosed as bipolar.

[Tucson]

Interesting. This is one of what can be several reasons to get a second opinion. I think a psychoneurologist would be able to determine this. Just a thought.

[Cocosurviving]

Trust me I’ve been living with bipolar one since 2012. I’m use to it now. This past May my oldest daughter was IP and evaluated by a psychiatrist for 10 minutes who said she had BP 2. She put her on Abilify and Celexa. Three weeks later my daughter had her first hypomanic episode. We talked about it and started wondering if we were bipolar why did we never have episodes “before” taking a medication? I never had mania until taking Celexa back in 2012. I figure before taking medication the rest of my life. I can just get a second opinion it does not hurt. If the second person concludes that I do have bipolar one and can explain it to me. I will be satisfied. I just need answers to my questions.

[Tucson]

Cocosurbiving, you are being a reasonable person. Thanks for your input.