Bipolar and autism

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 11, 2022 at 07:12 AM

Suppose someone with comorbid bipolar disorder and autism (high-functioning). I'm trying to figure out how both disorders could influence each other. I.e. how would the autism affect the presentation of (hypo)mania and depression? And could the bipolar have an effect on how autistic symptoms manifest? I realize this will differ from person to person and that the autism spectrum is broad, but I'm just trying to get a high-level idea. Are there any people here with relevant experience in this?

Miss Laura · Jan 11, 2022 at 07:17 AM

I worked with 2 men who had Autism, 1 Aspergers Syndrome and 1 lower Autism. They both had bipolar. AS guy had type 1 and LA guy had type 2.

Both well managed. Both on medication for their bipolar.

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FluffyDinosaur · Jan 11, 2022 at 07:54 AM

Do you know if their autism has any effect on what their manias or depressions look like, i.e. how the different symptoms express themselves compared to people without comorbid autism?

Miss Laura · Jan 11, 2022 at 07:59 AM

The 1 with type 1 was a typical type 1 (mostly high with some low). He would demonstrate his high with grandiose ideas of becoming famous, opening night clubs up etc

The 1 with type 2 again was a typical 2 (mostly low with some hypo mania) he however would become very demonic though so I'm unsure if this was bipolar or autism or something else.

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*Beth* · Jan 11, 2022 at 03:17 PM

I don't have any experience with your interesting question, FluffyD. But I just want to say Hi!

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 12, 2022 at 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Laura

The 1 with type 1 was a typical type 1 (mostly high with some low). He would demonstrate his high with grandiose ideas of becoming famous, opening night clubs up etc

The 1 with type 2 again was a typical 2 (mostly low with some hypo mania) he however would become very demonic though so I'm unsure if this was bipolar or autism or something else.

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Okay, thanks! Could you explain what you mean by demonic? I was also wondering, since people on the autism spectrum tend to have very intense and focused interests, whether that would shine through in their mania, and whether those interests might dominate over more stereotypical things like increased social activity. Or whether the increased social interest might look different. Those sorts of things.

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 12, 2022 at 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethRags

I don't have any experience with your interesting question, FluffyD. But I just want to say Hi!

Hey, Beth, how have you been? Hope you're doing well!

*Beth* · Jan 12, 2022 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

Hey, Beth, how have you been? Hope you're doing well!

Thanks for asking Much better since being on Gabapentin (for the severe anxiety).

Miss Laura · Jan 12, 2022 at 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

Okay, thanks! Could you explain what you mean by demonic? I was also wondering, since people on the autism spectrum tend to have very intense and focused interests, whether that would shine through in their mania, and whether those interests might dominate over more stereotypical things like increased social activity. Or whether the increased social interest might look different. Those sorts of things.

He was very 'psychotic' in the way he laughed and talked and acted. You know like Hannibal Lectre the look etc. He scared a lot of staff working with him. To the point they refused to work with him. He had aggressive behaviour towards the staff too. Standing behind doors and attacking staff. This guy was more sociable however no friends just acquaintances. He did play football for people with disabilities but was very possessive over us staff if a guy spoke to one of us he would go bananas.

Yes my other guy was very focused on becoming famous and living a rock n roll lifestyle. Both their 'autistic traits' shone through when flying higher.

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FluffyDinosaur · Jan 13, 2022 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethRags

Thanks for asking Much better since being on Gabapentin (for the severe anxiety).

Glad to hear it! I'll have to keep that one in mind for myself, sounds like a better long-term solution than benzos.

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 13, 2022 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Laura

He was very 'psychotic' in the way he laughed and talked and acted. You know like Hannibal Lectre the look etc. He scared a lot of staff working with him. To the point they refused to work with him. He had aggressive behaviour towards the staff too. Standing behind doors and attacking staff. This guy was more sociable however no friends just acquaintances. He did play football for people with disabilities but was very possessive over us staff if a guy spoke to one of us he would go bananas.

Yes my other guy was very focused on becoming famous and living a rock n roll lifestyle. Both their 'autistic traits' shone through when flying higher.

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That does sound a little scary! Thanks for sharing these insights!

Soupe du jour · Jan 14, 2022 at 04:06 PM

I'm no expert on autism or autism spectrum, but I have been in contact with a handful of people who have it. I remember talking to my psychiatrist about why some people present as excess talkers (extreme in cases), while my two nephews (both diagnosed with Asperger's) barely talk(ed) at all. He told me that the autism spectrum has some variations, so those on the spectrum don't all present exactly the same. I guess that's sort of similar, in a way, to those on the bipolar spectrum. But my point in mentioning this is that one might see some of the "extreme talkers" as almost manic-like, but without actual mania.

Possible trigger:

My eldest nephew has ADD in addition to Asperger's. He definitely has more of the inattentive type, and yet he is extremely hyperfocused about select hobbies. My youngest nephew had a bipolar diagnosis with the Asperger's. I'd say my youngest seemed to have a slightly more severe Asperger's than the eldest, and his functionality was far more affected. As referenced, he was a quiet (and sweet) fellow and his bipolar disorder presented mostly on the depressive end. When he did have "mood elevation" it was extremely agitated and a number of times he became violent. This latter tendency caused him great sadness, as his father called the cops on him a few times, leading to hospitalizations. Once he showed violence towards my eldest nephew, which led to his father encouraging a restraining order. [I think that was a very sad and unfair overreaction, but I'll just leave it at that.] My younger nephew had to live with my father and brother [not the greatest duo to live with - believe me] for much of a year, until the restraining order was lifted. Tragically, though he had about a year feeling much better, living again with my sister/bi-l/eldest nephew, he became quite ill again. And was lost. In his short 24 years he had 9 psychiatric hospitalizations, with two series of ECTs and some were from 911 calls regarding suicidal threats. I'm not sure if/how much his Asperger's may have played a part, but certainly it was a major challenge in his life. He never had any friends. I don't believe he ever had a girlfriend. His only jobs were very unsatisfying. He was unable to succeed at community college. But also, I feel my brother-in-law was extremely verbally abusive. It deeply saddens me that he had such misery! If I had only known what was likely to come, I swear I would have asked him to live with my husband and me. Would haves, could haves, should haves! During those tough times for him, I was having severe times, as well. Despite all of these challenges, he loved both of his parents...for better or worse. My sister is a good person, but a typical wife of an abuser who lives with and excuses it. Not to say she never tried to make things better, but she could have done more. I also think living in a near hoarding house was rough for him. [B-i-l and eldest nephew have those tendencies.] It's a total tragedy! He collected SSI for some years, then after finally trying to work, he was fired.

Victoria'smom · Jan 15, 2022 at 03:01 PM

I fully believe my son has both. He's mostly depressed but definitely has his up times. He's officially Add,asd, mood disorder. He may or may not have psychosis at times. However he refuses to change his team for a better fit.

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 16, 2022 at 04:09 AM

Thank you very much @Soupe du jour, for sharing that. I'm very sorry about your nephew. Sounds like a "perfect storm" of bad situations.

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 16, 2022 at 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

I fully believe my son has both. He's mostly depressed but definitely has his up times. He's officially Add,asd, mood disorder. He may or may not have psychosis at times. However he refuses to change his team for a better fit.

Thanks for the reply! Do you see any effect of the autism on how things like depression and mania manifest? Does it look differently from the "classic" manifestations in people without ASD?

Victoria'smom · Jan 16, 2022 at 08:02 PM

His expression of emotion is harder to tell. Often you can't tell except he paces back and forth yelling about something he's excited about and doing a thing with his hands. Staying up for days, getting overwhelmed by all the day to day noises and having more meltdowns.

His depression is quiet but deep. He picks at his skin and continues well after it bleeds. Thinks very negative thoughts about him self. He'll tap "I love you" often. He's really quiet and stares off into space a lot when depressed.

FluffyDinosaur · Jan 17, 2022 at 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

His expression of emotion is harder to tell. Often you can't tell except he paces back and forth yelling about something he's excited about and doing a thing with his hands. Staying up for days, getting overwhelmed by all the day to day noises and having more meltdowns.

His depression is quiet but deep. He picks at his skin and continues well after it bleeds. Thinks very negative thoughts about him self. He'll tap "I love you" often. He's really quiet and stares off into space a lot when depressed.

Thank you, that makes sense! Thanks for shedding some more light on this.

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Miss Laura Elder Member Since Sep 2008 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 5,246 15 85 hugs given	Jan 11, 2022 at 07:17 AM #2 I worked with 2 men who had Autism, 1 Aspergers Syndrome and 1 lower Autism. They both had bipolar. AS guy had type 1 and LA guy had type 2. Both well managed. Both on medication for their bipolar. Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk
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FluffyDinosaur Grand Member Member Since Nov 2019 Location: In my head, mostly Posts: 754 4 31 hugs given	Jan 11, 2022 at 07:54 AM #3 Do you know if their autism has any effect on what their manias or depressions look like, i.e. how the different symptoms express themselves compared to people without comorbid autism?
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Beth catches the flowers Member Since Jul 2019 Location: Downtown Vibes, California Posts: 15,701 (SuperPoster!) 4 23.7k hugs given	Jan 11, 2022 at 03:17 PM #5 I don't have any experience with your interesting question, FluffyD. But I just want to say Hi! __________________
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FluffyDinosaur Grand Member Member Since Nov 2019 Location: In my head, mostly Posts: 754 4 31 hugs given	Jan 16, 2022 at 04:09 AM #14 Thank you very much @Soupe du jour, for sharing that. I'm very sorry about your nephew. Sounds like a "perfect storm" of bad situations.
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