[MuddyBoots]

At what point does "I've never looked at this in that way" turn into "loss of touch with reality?"

[bizi]

Do you have family or friends to call and talk to about this.
or perhaps a trip to a therapist might help.
sorry
bizi

[mote.of.soul]

Originally Posted by MuddyBoots

At what point does "I've never looked at this in that way" turn into "loss of touch with reality?"

Yeah, that's a tricky question. I mean, you can take say 5 people and each one may have a differing view on the nature of reality, and that would be conditioned by culture, religion, personal views, science, all kinds of things. And they're all looking at each other saying, you're all out of your minds, delusional - or be accepting without any further ado.

Maybe what matters is, whether or not the view on reality sticks to ethics and morality, because if that isn't there then that's what, I think, generates the most criticism. I'm just speculating.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by MuddyBoots

At what point does "I've never looked at this in that way" turn into "loss of touch with reality?"

As I see it, it depends on how successful you are (or aren't) at inviting others to join you in exploring your version of reality. If they happened to be already freaked out from some previous encounter with you -- or if you just happened to remind them of someone else they'd been freaked out by -- they might not want to go there.

That reminds me of Ram Dass's take on a somewhat related question, from when he was visiting his brother who was inpatient. Let's see if I can make it a little bit short but not completely unrecognizable:

Originally Posted by Ram Dass

My brother was producing voluminous amounts of material, reading Greek, which he had never been able to read before. He was doing a number of phenomenal things which the doctors saw as pathological -- his agitation, the fact that he could steal, lie, and cheat and tell that he was Christ. He escaped from the hospital a number of times, a very creative fellow.

My reading of his materials showed me that he was tuned in on some of the greatest truths in the world that have ever been enunciated by some of the highest beings. He was experiencing these directly, but he was caught in a feeling that this was happening only to him. In other words, he had taken an ego with him into this other state of consciousness and he was experiencing it as unique to himself. And, therefore, he got into a messy predicament of saying, "I've been given this, and you haven't," you see. As we decided to share time and space, he noted that everything he said on this level I understood, and we could talk at this level together, although the psychiatrist sitting in the room was having a very difficult time dealing with this visitor who was obviously crazier than the patient, you know. And my brother often said to me, "I don't know," he says, "I'm a lawyer, I'm a decent citizen, I've got a tie and jacket, and I go to church, and I'm a good person, and I read the Bible. Me they've got in a mental hospital; you, you walk barefoot, you've got a beard, you've got a funny name, you really wear . . . you, you're out, free. How do you explain that?" And I say, "Well, I'll show you how." I said, "Do you think you're Christ? The Christ in pure consciousness?" he says, "Yes." I say, "Well, I think I am, too." And he looks at me and he says, "No, you don't understand." I say, "That's why they lock you up," you see. Because the minute you tell somebody else they're not Christ, they lock you up. The minute you say, "I am and you're not," then you gotta go. It's very clear. That's the way the game is played.

-- From The Only Dance There Is, pp. 70-72

[MuddyBoots]

I've been thinking about this a bit, and I think one (small?) part is how you've come to the perspective of whatever the thought is.

Take my past episode. My main delusion was protons are having a higher charge and we can use that in a certain way to either produce all the energy we will ever need or blow up the world. This was purely because of perceptual disturbances and thinking "that stop sign looks brighter and it doesn't look quite as attached to the pole as it used to," so there was a subjective viewpoint that no one else could see (and trust me, I've asked). If your conclusion is based on a false premise, chances are the conclusion is false too.

There are also other symptoms of psychosis. I think if they all tie in together in a way that's coherent and syntonic within itself, it's a possibility, but if some of it is obviously far out there enough to have no relation to "reality" then the argument of possibly "creatively perceiving" (or doing so without being "psychotic") is naught.

[MrsJL]

My opinion:
If your thinking, your perception, your sensory experience and the resulting actions cannot be connected in any way with the experience and observation of others, then something is wrong.
Of course, very few of us will always be able to understand or experience the thoughts and feelings of others 100%, but at least we meet at the point where our perceptions, experiences and worlds of thought intersect.
And even if everyone at a group meeting can have a different experience and processing of the same evening, it is at least certain that this group meeting took place THERE with this and that person, where there was a common toast.

5 people will look outside the same window, reckognizing different things, but they still see the same area.

[MuddyBoots]

Yeah. I guess the problem there though is finding a large enough number of people (at least two others, but as it always is, the more the more likely of finding "truth").

I'm thinking maybe "creatively perceiving" is less actual, physical perspective than a reflection of his/her creativity on the environment, while psychosis is more of a physical perspective shift without the ability of take away the reflection.