[easy goer]

This is another thing that has baffled me. One book suggested that some experts believe that the heightened intuition on the part of BPDs has to do with being abused which forces the victim to be able to sense dangers signs when their tormentor will strike.

This sort of makes logical sense although there is little/no empirical evidence.

I was wondering if "splitting" is also something cause by abuse? ALthough it is hard to see the connection. I mean I can see other aspects of my BPD wife that might be attributable to abuse, such as OCD. Someone might to habitual behavior out of a belief that it is protecting them. That might be an example.

BUt what about splitting? It is hard for me to understand this and it certainly goes hand in hand with these other symptoms my wife displays? Clearly there must be some sort of connection to all these other characteristics of BPD. I mean I am no doctor, but her behaviors are like textbook borderline. So I know there must be some connection.

ANy ideas? OR better yet, how to respond to this..?

[reg12]

Hello easy goer,
Please explain exactly what you mean by "splitting" and the specific symtoms that you see or that she tells you that are associated with it. I am trying to answer your question if I can.

Originally Posted by easy goer

This is another thing that has baffled me. One book suggested that some experts believe that the heightened intuition on the part of BPDs has to do with being abused which forces the victim to be able to sense dangers signs when their tormentor will strike.

This sort of makes logical sense although there is little/no empirical evidence.

I was wondering if "splitting" is also something cause by abuse? ALthough it is hard to see the connection. I mean I can see other aspects of my BPD wife that might be attributable to abuse, such as OCD. Someone might to habitual behavior out of a belief that it is protecting them. That might be an example.

BUt what about splitting? It is hard for me to understand this and it certainly goes hand in hand with these other symptoms my wife displays? Clearly there must be some sort of connection to all these other characteristics of BPD. I mean I am no doctor, but her behaviors are like textbook borderline. So I know there must be some connection.

ANy ideas? OR better yet, how to respond to this..?

[starrina]

Hey easy goer I am going to assume by splitting you mean disociative identity disorder
put simply it is the creation of "others"
to help one deal with traume a**e in childhood
However it is far more then that and I would suggest if this
is what you are referring to that you research a little more
D.I.D was once called M.P.D or split personality.

I hope this goes someway to maybe helping.

[Michah]

Hi there,

Splitting is an odd turn of phrase is it not?

When I was dx BPD "splitting" was a term used in reference to people with DID(Dissociative identity disorder.....formerly MPD, as Starrina stated)......however I doubt that term is still used in reference to that particular disorder.....

Splitting in the Borderline context has to to with identity......as far as I know. It is the fragmentation of identity that causes it.....however we do not experience separate identities, such as is in DID.......now in saying that, it sounds terribly ambiguous......so I have included a link in the hope that wikepedia can explain it better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

Sorry, had it all wrong.......when speaking above of identity, I was thinking of "fragmentation" not "splitting........Wiki did a much better job of explaining it......

Hope that helps.......and take care

Michah

[easy goer]

Sorry. I did not mean "splitting' in the sense of personality. It is used also to describe when the person starts to make moral judgment about everything that is different from them. Everything is seen in terms of black and white, hence the term "splitting."

For example my wife likes tennis I do not. So when I play a sport other then tennis she starts to put it down..

****

She puts down her sister in law. Her sister in law argues with the father, he is conservative she is liberal. Foreign policy, social spending, etc. they disagree. "Well" says my wife "X, is wrong. SHe doesnt practice what she preaches. She is couch potatoe..."

ME: "So what? How does that make what she says wrong?"
Her: "She is too lazy. She doesnt put it into practice..."
The whole family is very athletic. IF you arent active, you are wrong...

So it goes with every freakin thing:

"Hey can I borrow your paint to finish the model I am building?:"
"No."
"Why not? It's like two drops of paint.."
"Your hobby wastes time."
"And your hobby with needle pt doesnt?"
"Thats different my hobby HELPS people yours doesnt."

***

"Hey can we put a pencil holder in the kitchen?
"No.
"WHy not?
"It will change the room and it has to be this way.
"You went around and put up shelves all over the house without asking me.

A freakin pencil holder! I'm not kidding a freakin pencil holder. Every freakin discussion turned into something like this.

THis is splitting behavior. It is all black and white. She is right I am wrong.

[Pup]

That is not splitting behavior, that is thinking in black & white... that's a very common symptom in BPD.

[easy goer]

Call it what you will. Is there any suggestion out there of how it originates?

BTW: In the book Stop Walking on Eggshells it is referred to as splitting; I am going from my notes so maybe I am mistaken.

[easy goer]

Wikepedia, acknowledges both definitions of this term. Here is the entry for the black/white thinking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Call it what you will. Is there any suggestion out there of how it originates?

The black and white thinking very common with BPD is due to the nature of the disorder. Typically, people develop BPD in childhood, before their sense of self and general understanding of society has developed. The belief is held deeply inside, as it is what we've learned to help us deal with the stress/ors.

Children believe that things are either right or wrong. There is no in-between. There aren't "many different ways" of looking upon things, because that's what we've been taught by caregivers. We generalize that there is only one way. One right thing to do, one person to be with, one great job, etc.

The result of these false beliefs leads to much sadness, anger, disappointment, self-blame, and self-hate when reality does not meet our false expectations. We may even recognize our beliefs to be foolish, but they are deeply ingrained in our psyche as they began when we were so young and impressionable.

Shez

[easy goer]

Yes I am coming back to this theory. I was starting to think that projection might be part of it as well, possibly they are projecting their own self loathing on others in order to feel better somewhat. Perhaps this is part of it. However, she does the split thinking thing even with third parties, e.g. her father and sister in law are seen as good/bad. WHich seems to contradict my idea of projection e.g., why would she project onto them? Or perhaps may be she is just taking out her own feelings on them?

When I think of childhood, I am just not sure why a BPD hasnt evolved beyond that when theyve obviously evolved in other dimensions of the personality. It is all very puzzling..

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by easy goer

I was starting to think that projection might be part of it as well, possibly they are projecting their own self loathing on others in order to feel better somewhat. Perhaps this is part of it. However, she does the split thinking thing even with third parties, e.g. her father and sister in law are seen as good/bad. WHich seems to contradict my idea of projection e.g., why would she project onto them? Or perhaps may be she is just taking out her own feelings on them?

Have you gone into BPD treatment rooms to discuss your Q's with professionals? If not, please do so. I'm just a regular Jane ~ not a professional. I have BPD, and am frustrated. We do not project self-loathing onto others.

Instead, we believe that the rules and beliefs apply to everyone on Earth. Therefore, when a person does or says something that is against what we have learned, they are wrong. They are bad. We over-generalize. A person isn't just wrong on X topic, they're simply wrong about everything. End of story and relationship. When these relationships are with family or law, it leads to a lot of major struggles within.

We aren't trying to be jerks, to make ourselves feel better. We're simply applying what we believe down in our souls to be correct. If we have frequent struggles with these people, we dislike them intensely. Life is love/hate. Good/bad. Right/wrong. We struggle hard to understand the shades in between.

Shez

[easy goer]

Yes I can see what you are saying. The projection theory doesnt seem to work as she was doing it to rather neutral parties...

Can I ask you something Shez? Given what you said above, do you

...feel that bad things can happen to good people?

...are very much a rules follower?

Would be very interested in what you and others have to say. Thanks for the input.

As for theory, again I am still not 100% buying into this prevailing idea of the early childhood state/object constancy. For one thing this object constancy idea, this is something that is happening at age 2 or thereabouts. The idea of good/bad; well when you are 2, fire might be bad as it hurss, or milk may be good because it tastes good, but the moral concept. This surely doenst come along until like 4 or 5? From my experience that is sort of how I recall first thinking about good/bad people. These stages seem to be far apart. Hmmm.

[shezbut]

Tough question, easy goer. My adult psyche often battles with foolish strong child beliefs.

Why must some people suffer more than others? I don't know. It sucks. I hate it. But I must deserve the years of misery I've lived. I hate myself to the very core.

I do not believe that others deserve their lives of hell. No one does. But, those thoughts don't apply to me. I am a separate entity, if that makes any sense to you. I hold myself to very high standards. Impossibly high, I know, and I am trying hard to overcome the self-hate. DBT has been helpful for me, so far, but it does recognize that changing our long witheld thoughts/beliefs is NOT easy at all. It takes a long time and a lot of work to change the way our minds look at things.

I hope that made some sense to you...

[easy goer]

Yes it does. Thanks for sharing this, I appreciate it very much.

Can I ask you one more thing? If it is too intrusive, I apologize and will understand.

Do you think that: possibly when you were young, you were taught that bad things were happening to you because you were bad?

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Do you think that: possibly when you were young, you were taught that bad things were happening to you because you were bad?

I don't know. It's tough to say what I was taught.

One haunting memory began at age 5. I have always been very ashamed by the memory, despite my mother minimizing the event and without casting blame.

When I was in 3rd grade, I was kidnapped and escaped (maybe after an hour??). The police brought me home. My grandparents were living with us at that time, and I recall my grandfather yelling at me that it was all my fault.

[easy goer]

Yes, thank you shez. You are helping me understand this and maybe others as well.

My wife's one memory is that her of hearing all this commotion in her bedroom and her mother was standing on top of her twin brother (my wifes twin, this would be the mother's son) in order to control him. THat was the only way to hold him down.

The twin abused her but to what extent I cannot say. I wonder if my wife was given some similar suggestion and she carries that with her? I wonder if this is common to BPD.

Again, thank you. It is difficult to understand and we owe you and others like you a lot for sharing what you can.

[ECHOES]

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=115910

I posted this in the Psychotherapy forum. I hope it helps.

[easy goer]

that's very useful. thankx.

[billieJ]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Yes I am coming back to this theory. I was starting to think that projection might be part of it as well, possibly they are projecting their own self loathing on others in order to feel better somewhat. Perhaps this is part of it. However, she does the split thinking thing even with third parties, e.g. her father and sister in law are seen as good/bad. WHich seems to contradict my idea of projection e.g., why would she project onto them? Or perhaps may be she is just taking out her own feelings on them?

When I think of childhood, I am just not sure why a BPD hasnt evolved beyond that when theyve obviously evolved in other dimensions of the personality. It is all very puzzling..

Just a thought: a person who projects, projects onto everyone. Whoever is there. It's so much easier than taking the blame for your own faults [her own faults]. It is very puzzling. Diagnosis is just an effort to try and find the right treatment. The lines are imperfect and blend into one another.

[easy goer]

this for Billie and Shezbut (but really anybody). In regards to projection I do not want to say that you (shez) are projecting "self loathing" but you may be projecting an image or concept that you have in your subconscious that relates to previous relationships. Here is a link to a paper by Otto Kernberg one of the pioneers in BPD theory:

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

What he refers to as transference is some sort of projection, see on page 5:

"One crucial advantage of the proposed classification of personality disorders is that
the underlying structural concepts permit the therapist to translate the patient’s affect
states into the object relationship being activated in the transference, and to “read” this
transference in terms of the activation of a relationship that typically alternates in the
projection of self and object representations"

It goes in better depth on pp. 9-12 on what they are trying to say with dyads and object relations and such. I think these are concepts or representations that you have in your mind and you fall back on them and then project them onto others.

For instance my wife will often enter inton one of three characters when faced with feelings or a confrontation that she doesnt want to deal with:

a) Prosecutor "You are lazy, look at how I work. WHy dont you get off your ***?"

b) Caregiver; "I am busy working, dont you see I am busy. We'll talk later.

c) Victim. "I am OVERWHELMED!"

It usually starts with she changes the subject or "we'll do it later." THen she goes into one of these personalities. If full blown, she will act out and mock me. I have seen her go through all seven under severe stress.

I am not saying it is dissassocation which other BPD may or may not experience. It is basically quickly returning to a role of someone that she may have heard before. Perhaps it is how one of her parents speak/act?

It is interesting I first encountered this discussion of three characters I think in the Eggshell book or it might have been another. Not the first time Ive seen that but the Kernburg paper mentions them as well,IIRC.

ANyhow, there might be somethign to this projection idea, but not the way I was orginally thinking. I dont want to say that you are doing this deliberately, it seems to be some sort of conceptual personality that a BPD might fall into or transfer into.